Will They Be Interviewing Any Of The Ticketless Fans......

[ToraToraTora]

after they have lynched Duckenfield?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-29223563
Just wondered if at any point the real cause of the disaster is going to be considered. Anyone on AB willing to own up to being in the ticketless mob on the day? There were several thousand, they seem to have dissappeared.

[andy-hughes]

Being ticketless is one thing - it does not mean you are part of a 'mob', but part of a crowd, which is not the same thing.

The tragedy happened because of bad decisions by Mr Duckenfield on the day.

Bad decisions can happen to anyone - cold-heartedly lying about them afterwards to save both face and career is a conscious, and reprehensible choice which should not be forgiven in a man in his position.

[ToraToraTora]

So too many people who should not have even been there did not contribute to this then Andy? Right oh!

[dave50]

The scousers will never allow that to be even considered.

[andy-hughes]

Tora - //So too many people who should not have even been there did not contribute to this then Andy? Right oh!//

That is not what I said.

I would not condone turning up to a match without a ticket, but that said, the tragedy only occurred because of actions set in place by Mr Duckenfield.

He was in a position of authority based on rank and experience, and he made a wrong decision - which he will have to live with.

But to compound that decision by ducking that responsibility, and trying to pass the blame on is simply unacceptable. That is the point I am making.

[ToraToraTora]

"...the tragedy only occurred because of actions set in place by Mr Duckenfield" do you blame your cistern overflow for putting out water when too much comes in? So it's all Duckenfield, nothing to do with thousands of ticketless "fans" rushing in then? did you read what the turnstile guy said? Duckenfield attempted to deal with an issue that occurred as a direct result of thousands of people that should not have been there. Yes errors were made, yes by his own admission he was not the right bloke, yes they tried to cover it up but in the end the initial problem was caused by thousands of ticketless fans. It's the truth that we are not allowed to say but it's the truth.

[mikey4444]

TTT...its obvious that the fans played a part in the tragedy that happened at Hillsborough but andy hughes is right. Duckenfield made a huge mistake at the event, was completely inadequate to the task ( his words, not mine) and he then lied about his actions for 25 years.

Everybody makes mistakes but to lie in the original Inquest, continue to lie for a further 25 years, and only them own up to the truth, is a heinous crime. I am still waiting on New Judges comments, on another thread, as to whether Duckenfield can charged with perjury or not.

[elgreco]

The man lied, which was stupid and unforgivable. The lie is not the reason for the deaths. The situation outside the ground was such that people were going to be crushed and probably killed. The gates were opened to relieve that pressure. The man was damned no matter what decision he made. The cause was late arriving supporters, some drunk, some ticketless, all desperate to get in the ground. The deaths were going to happen, just a matter of where.
Such a shame that the victims seem to be people who arrived early.

[ToraToraTora]

I agree but thousands of ticketless fans are being ignored whilst they prepare to punish one man for an error. This would not have happenned if thousands of fans without tickets had not forced there way in. If he had no openned the gate then would they have been crushed outside?? would that still be his fault? I just think that this has been oversimploified and the thousands of fans that started this have been let off, we dare not mention them. This is disgusting scape goating to exonerate the primary cause.

[ToraToraTora]

that was at mikey.

[chaptazbru2]

I have always thought that the ticketless fans carried a large amount of the blame. They were told to keep away, but didn't !!

[mikey4444]

You have a valid point TTT, but its the lies told by a serving Police Officer that is at issue now. He lied and should now face the full force of the law.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - // I just think that this has been oversimploified and the thousands of fans that started this have been let off, we dare not mention them. This is disgusting scape goating to exonerate the primary cause. //

I for one am perfectly happy to mention them - and they did play their part in the tragedy.

What they did was find themselves in circumstances which they could not control.

What Duckenfield did was make a wrong decision, which resulted in tragic deaths and injuries.

What Duckenfield then did was to lie and dissemble and heap more misery on the already devasted lives of football fans, and he then lied under oath to cover up his actions, and protect himself from the result of his actions.

Police officers in authority get paid large sums of money, not just to make the right decicions, but to be moral and honest enough to own up when hey have made wrong decisions, and to take the consequences.

Mr Duckenfield is not being 'lynched' - he being dealt with by due legal process, as he should have been at the time, had not his lies and dissembling protected him.

[jackthehat]

Oh my word.....it's deja vu....all over again....

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question910928.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1178411.html

[andy-hughes]

Mikey and I have cross-posted - but we obviously see this from the same viewpoint.

[andy-hughes]

Hey jack! How's it hangin'? xx

[youngmafbog]

Just what was Duckenfield supposed to do? Let them mash themselves at the turnstile?

Yes, he was very wrong to lie, but that is no reason to place all the blame on him. By doing so it is obvious why he felt the need to lie in the first place - The scouse lynch mob.

[youngmafbog]

To the left as usual I expect Andy.

[ToraToraTora]

Divebuddy: "....was the late arriving and ticketless fans who directly caused this." - bang on.

It seems from mikey and andy anyone without the guts to differ that Duckenfield must be punished for what happenned after the event rather than the actual event, ok so fair enough. You therefore agree then that he's not the primary cause but lieing about it means he must be punished, fair enough. So when will they be rounding up those who caused the disaster? Are any of the thousands of ticketless fans known? being persued? going to be persued? It think we know the answer people! Liverpool has decided to blame Duckenfield and has let off their own who really caused this.