ChatterBank1 min ago
Hopefully This Will Stop The Planning By A Few Would-Be Terrorists
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He is clearly small fry though it was clear he planned an atrocity.
I doubt this will deter future terrorists similar to himself. He is clearly young, impressionable and not very bright.
I would be more re-assured if they had caught the people who had turned him into a potential killer, but there is no mention of their capture or prosecution in the report.
// He initially turned to his local mosque for support before he fell in with the Muslim group al-Muhajiroun //
I doubt this will deter future terrorists similar to himself. He is clearly young, impressionable and not very bright.
I would be more re-assured if they had caught the people who had turned him into a potential killer, but there is no mention of their capture or prosecution in the report.
// He initially turned to his local mosque for support before he fell in with the Muslim group al-Muhajiroun //
The problem with Stop and Search is that on occasion it's used without reasonable justification. That remains true, even though here it worked (as it has also worked on several other occasions). I don't have a problem with Stop and Search in principle, it's just that sometimes in practice it's a power that is abused.
Jim
Have you personally been stopped and searched without justification if so I am sorry that you feel aggrieved. I can't help but feel that those who constantly complain about the Useage are precisely those who should be stopped and searched.Remember the Vagrancy Act was a very good tool to use in crime prevention and that was also repealed to appeasethose who complained it was abused.
Have you personally been stopped and searched without justification if so I am sorry that you feel aggrieved. I can't help but feel that those who constantly complain about the Useage are precisely those who should be stopped and searched.Remember the Vagrancy Act was a very good tool to use in crime prevention and that was also repealed to appeasethose who complained it was abused.
Actually Mr Justice Pontius passed an extended sentence of twenty seven years, the custodial term of which is twenty two years, with a licence extension of five years. He stated that the defendant must serve at least two thirds of the custodial term (14 years and 8 months) before being eleigible to apply for parole. In his sentencing remarks he said this:
"BRUSTHOM ZIAMANI, in all the circumstances I am entirely satisfied that
the gravity of this case demands an extended sentence with a custodial term of twenty two years, of which you are required to serve at least two thirds, that is fourteen years and eight months, before your case is considered by the Parole Board. It will be a matter for the Board alone, not for this court, to determine whether, at that stage, you still present a danger to the public or can safely be released. Following your release, whenever that takes place, you will remain subject to the terms of your licence not only for the balance then remaining of the custodial term but also for an additional period of five years.
That means that, if released at the two thirds point of the custodial term, you
will remain on licence for the following twelve years and four months.
I have no doubt that an extended licence period of that length is imperative,
for the reasons I have already set out."
As far as the "stop and search" issue goes, tellingly he said this:
"A realistic and sensible assessment of the whole of the relevant evidence that
the jury and I heard leads inescapably to the conclusion that this defendant,
had he not - by sheer good fortune - been spotted and stopped by the police
in a street in East London during the afternoon of Tuesday 19th August last
year, would have carried out the intention he had so graphically expressed to
his ex-girlfriend only a few hours before.
Personally, in light of the current circumstances, I would be perfectly happy to see stop and search used extensively. It seems it prevented at least one extremely serious atrocity from occurring and, in this instance, the ends justify the means.
"BRUSTHOM ZIAMANI, in all the circumstances I am entirely satisfied that
the gravity of this case demands an extended sentence with a custodial term of twenty two years, of which you are required to serve at least two thirds, that is fourteen years and eight months, before your case is considered by the Parole Board. It will be a matter for the Board alone, not for this court, to determine whether, at that stage, you still present a danger to the public or can safely be released. Following your release, whenever that takes place, you will remain subject to the terms of your licence not only for the balance then remaining of the custodial term but also for an additional period of five years.
That means that, if released at the two thirds point of the custodial term, you
will remain on licence for the following twelve years and four months.
I have no doubt that an extended licence period of that length is imperative,
for the reasons I have already set out."
As far as the "stop and search" issue goes, tellingly he said this:
"A realistic and sensible assessment of the whole of the relevant evidence that
the jury and I heard leads inescapably to the conclusion that this defendant,
had he not - by sheer good fortune - been spotted and stopped by the police
in a street in East London during the afternoon of Tuesday 19th August last
year, would have carried out the intention he had so graphically expressed to
his ex-girlfriend only a few hours before.
Personally, in light of the current circumstances, I would be perfectly happy to see stop and search used extensively. It seems it prevented at least one extremely serious atrocity from occurring and, in this instance, the ends justify the means.
NJ
Thank you for yet again wise and erudite assessment and post.
Please indulge me on this anecdotal historic event.
As a young copper in about 1972 I stopped two rather scruffy youths in the Bayswater Road, Paddington W2.I had just started my night duty shift.They were white but one had a very expensive Nikon camera around his neck.I did a property index check on the serial no of the camera via our new issued Personal Storno radio.We called them "Bat Phones" back then.
The camera was part of a several thousand pound property Burglary from a professional photographic studio in Holborn several months previously.
All this property was recovered when the accused's flat was searched in Riding House Street. Marylebone ,The owner of the studio was extremely pleased that his property was recovered through stop and search and a copper's hunch.I stopped a man of colour with a Ghetto Blaster in Praed St Paddington.Result.Ghetto Blaster stolen in a Burglary.Loads of stolen property recovered from accused flat.Victims of burglary had no complaints about "stop and search" in those days.
All stop and searches were recorded on a stop slip that were handed to the crime collator.The stops were also recorded in Book 66 which outlined the details and reasons for the search and whether the search was resented .
I can honestly say that no stops I made were resented.About 33% resulted in recovery of stolen property,drugs,offensive weapons etc.
I explained the reason for the stop to those who were innocent of any wrong doing and if they objected they could make a complaint and they could see my shoulder no.I always thanked those who I stopped and thanked them for their cooperation in the fight against crime.
As a side note.The gentleman I stopped at the beginning of this anecdote was a freelance photographer who lived in Riding House St. Marylebone W.1. His flat overlooked the GPO tower.When the Angry Brigade exploded a bomb in the tower he happened to be pointing his camera outside his flat window.That photograph made front page news in the Daily Mirror I think.
I have tried to search the photographic archives to see that photo again with no success.
Sorry for this long anecdotal diatribe but i believe "stop and search" must be retained as the OP has proved.
Thank you for yet again wise and erudite assessment and post.
Please indulge me on this anecdotal historic event.
As a young copper in about 1972 I stopped two rather scruffy youths in the Bayswater Road, Paddington W2.I had just started my night duty shift.They were white but one had a very expensive Nikon camera around his neck.I did a property index check on the serial no of the camera via our new issued Personal Storno radio.We called them "Bat Phones" back then.
The camera was part of a several thousand pound property Burglary from a professional photographic studio in Holborn several months previously.
All this property was recovered when the accused's flat was searched in Riding House Street. Marylebone ,The owner of the studio was extremely pleased that his property was recovered through stop and search and a copper's hunch.I stopped a man of colour with a Ghetto Blaster in Praed St Paddington.Result.Ghetto Blaster stolen in a Burglary.Loads of stolen property recovered from accused flat.Victims of burglary had no complaints about "stop and search" in those days.
All stop and searches were recorded on a stop slip that were handed to the crime collator.The stops were also recorded in Book 66 which outlined the details and reasons for the search and whether the search was resented .
I can honestly say that no stops I made were resented.About 33% resulted in recovery of stolen property,drugs,offensive weapons etc.
I explained the reason for the stop to those who were innocent of any wrong doing and if they objected they could make a complaint and they could see my shoulder no.I always thanked those who I stopped and thanked them for their cooperation in the fight against crime.
As a side note.The gentleman I stopped at the beginning of this anecdote was a freelance photographer who lived in Riding House St. Marylebone W.1. His flat overlooked the GPO tower.When the Angry Brigade exploded a bomb in the tower he happened to be pointing his camera outside his flat window.That photograph made front page news in the Daily Mirror I think.
I have tried to search the photographic archives to see that photo again with no success.
Sorry for this long anecdotal diatribe but i believe "stop and search" must be retained as the OP has proved.
Quite so, retro.
As a young white lad living in north London (not too far from your old patch in Paddington) in the 1960s my mates and I were often stopped, questioned and searched by "Old Bill", especially if we were roaming about after dark. No big deal. We got to know most of the local officers, they got to know us. They knew who was "at it" and who was not. They were always polite to us (I like to think that's because we behaved properly towards them) and it really was no great shakes. When we moved on to become "Mods" and started driving around on our scooters we were often "pulled" and required to produce the usual trio of documents. It was just part of life's rich tapestry.
As has been adequately demonstrated and pointed out by Mr Justice Pontius today, stop and search is a vital tool in the armoury of the police and in my view any attempt to curtail it will simply bind the police unnecessarily and hinder their attempts to prevent serious crime.
As a young white lad living in north London (not too far from your old patch in Paddington) in the 1960s my mates and I were often stopped, questioned and searched by "Old Bill", especially if we were roaming about after dark. No big deal. We got to know most of the local officers, they got to know us. They knew who was "at it" and who was not. They were always polite to us (I like to think that's because we behaved properly towards them) and it really was no great shakes. When we moved on to become "Mods" and started driving around on our scooters we were often "pulled" and required to produce the usual trio of documents. It was just part of life's rich tapestry.
As has been adequately demonstrated and pointed out by Mr Justice Pontius today, stop and search is a vital tool in the armoury of the police and in my view any attempt to curtail it will simply bind the police unnecessarily and hinder their attempts to prevent serious crime.
I've not been stopped and/ or searched myself, no -- didn't mean to give that impression. Instead I was speaking of general statistics that suggest that maybe the powers are abused on occasion. I wouldn't want to see that used to end the practice, though -- when it works, it's a very powerful tool as we see here. Equally, we shouldn't use the successes as an excuse to gloss over the (admittedly minor) problems in S&S.
// I notice he was arrested as a result of 'stop and search' by police. Have also noticed a few ABers have in the past questioned the use of this power!! :-)//
You shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun....
The Balcombe street gang were apprehended because they were driving around London ( on their way to blow up some place I think ) and a police car cut in behind them and one PC exclaimed "oo I think that car in front is full of Irish terrorists" ... yeah must be true, it was in the papers and pleaded in court.
http://
blimey I did think 22 y was long for a nineteen year old
You shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun....
The Balcombe street gang were apprehended because they were driving around London ( on their way to blow up some place I think ) and a police car cut in behind them and one PC exclaimed "oo I think that car in front is full of Irish terrorists" ... yeah must be true, it was in the papers and pleaded in court.
http://
blimey I did think 22 y was long for a nineteen year old
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