Why are prison sentences so pathetic?

[Andy008]

In May I attended a court case where a 20-year old male was sentenced to six years for a catalogue of 28 offences including robberies, attempted robberies, and and an assortment of thefts, plus possesion of a class A drug, and actual bodily harm, and burglary, in the course of paying for a crack habit. I believe that the maximum sentence for robbery in itself is 14 years. I remember hearing something about "plea bargaining", it seemed to me that the more crime he committed, the less severe the punishment. If not, why did he get off so lightly?

[Buddy]

I remember a good few years ago now a little girl up in Aberdeenshire was stripped abused strangled and thrown in a river - left for dead.In effect murdered by the low life cos he walked away thinking she was dead.

However she had such tenacity and will to live this wee 10 yr old crawled bare naked through woodland for miles until she got help.

He was -because of HER will to live-was only convicted of attempted murder.

I was incensed and wrote to the Solicitor General.He is obliged to ask for a report from the Judge etc and I received a 5 page letter back.No I didnt change the law but if we all did this then maybe -just maybe they will think again.

In other words Andy get your pen out - People Power!

[january_bug]

Well I disagree with the sweeping platitude that is the subject title of this thread, but that won't surprise you at all.  Moreover, I don't think 6 years is all that light for the burglar.  Contrary to tabloid scaremongering, prisons aren't like Butlins.  They also cost you and me a LOT of money.  If the guy has shown remorse and has been able to train in a decent skill and if it is possible to monitor him after his release so that he actually gets a job and stops sponging off the rest of us... then I say let him out after 6 years and make him pay his own way in life. 

Re the little girl, a horrifying fact is that sexual assault carries a higher sentence than rape when the victim is under 16.  Therefore once you've started, it's better to go all the way and rape the child.  THAT to me is utterly sick and desperately needs reforming. 

However, I think it is sensible to bear in mind the hundreds of court cases every day.  The press only pick up on cases concerning considerable evil, considerable money, famous people, or bizarre (for want of a better word) punishment and sentencing.  In general, sentencing is more appropriate than these samples in the press would imply. 

Where there are sentences that citizens believe are themselves a miscarriage of justice, I wholeheartedly support people like Buddy, who actually do something about it.  Writing an eloquent letter to the Solicitor General will get your voice heard, and will allow citizens who feel strongly to be part of the force for change. 

[Andy008]

I think that a criminal record for a series of violent robberies may make getting a job slighlty problematic.

[january_bug]

Not necessarily.  There are many companies that work with prisons and with ex-convicts.  It is possible for people to gain work after they leave prison, many do every month. 

[january_bug]

Either way, it's cheaper to have him out of prison than in... if it is believed that he will not reoffend. 

[january_bug]

Indeed Eddie51 - my personal view is that, for non-violent crime, a person should be in prison for as long as it takes to get to the route of the problem and to solve that problem.  After that, they should not be detained for a significantly longer amount of time. 

[Andy008]

Erm....robbery is violent, that's what makes it robbery, as in ABH, hence the name "ASSAULT...occasioning actual bodily harm.

So I quite clearly did say violence was used?

[january_bug]

*root - sorry typo!

[january_bug]

No, you didn't.  You listed them seperately.  I personally thought you were talking about the theft, and the ABH as seperate offences. 

Robbery is with the use or threat of force.  It needn't actually be violent. 

[Zen]

6 years How long will he actually serve provided his behaviour is good whilst in prison ?
An old schoolfriend of mine got 9 months but was out in 2.

[january_bug]

Each individual case is considered on its merits, but within guidelines set down by statute. 

[taemoon]

In my experience majistrates let people off way to easily (gross generalisation i know). A lot of my family are in the police and police get so frustrated when all their efforts and time is wasted and someone is let off with little or no punishment.
On another note I dont think prison is the right place for burglars/thieves as they tend to learn the tricks of the trade there from more experienced prisoners. I have heard some of them call it a school. 

[january_bug]

 PRison is not a nice place.  Even if he deserves it. 

[jimmer]

Quite right January. Six years seems like a reasonable sentence (I think he'll serve around 3). I'd like to see less people go to prison and more emphasis on working with offenders. Re the case of the girl: doesn't attempted murder carry a life sentence as well as murder?

 

jim

[Buddy]

Jim

It was me who posted that answer and I can assure you he was only convicted of attempted murder because in effect she survived - much to his distress probably because she was able to give a description etc.This carried a lesser sentence.So she effectively saved him at that time from a mandatory life sentence.

Sorry Jim but why would I go to the bother of writing to the Solicitor General if he had received a justified sentence.

[Buddy]

And while I'm on a roll - whilst I bow to janbugs obvious superior legal knowlege (no offence meant) in laymans terms I agree with the ethos of rehabilitation for offenders who have gone off the rails.I know some and there is not a hope in hell would they re-offend.Sometimes one night in the jail is enough to crumble the hardiest of people.

I will say though - life should mean life - let them suffer for the rest of their days.Most take the easy option anyway.

So in other words keep the jails free by rehabilitaion to enable us to keep the psychos off the street for the rest of their living days.

There seems also to be a political slant to this discussion - why were the Krays never released but others have having done more damage - after all theirs were gangland killings-them or us.Hindley and Brady - there have been other child murderers, but they were never to be released (I know Brady is still alive).

Dont slate me - I hate and despise anyone who takes any persons life but I am only playing the devils advocate here.

[january_bug]

I'll happily admit that my "superior" knowledge on that one came from a fact file on the BBC website.  While I do have a law degree, I hated criminal law and could never learn all those facts off by heart.  So I did what any one of you would have done, and looked it up on a reputable online source!

I do agree with what you said Buddy.  Certain of them should be banged up for life.  We need more space for them, and if it's possible to rehabilitate lesser offenders, then let's do it, and get them out.  After all, it would be of benefit to everyone. 

[Peter Pedant]

O come on Bud - if you havent murdered someone, then you can't be indicted for murder.

So it has to be attempted murder.....

Sentencing is a matter for a judge.

In short Scots Law worked in the way that it was intended to work.

[Buddy]

Peter - I take your point.The only point I was attempting to make was that he left her for dead.

However you will notice now that in Scotland that Judges take everything into account, including the type of example I used,and would appear to be handing out life sentences where before they adhered absolutely to the letter of the law.In other words they are making the law more pliable.

You have to remember the case I cited must have been more than 20yrs ago - maybe not the best example admittedly.