Am I Right To Be Feeling This Way?
Family Life1 min ago
It Has Been Known For Years That It Is Unsafe To Marry One's First Cousin, But With The Large Influx Of Such Pakistani Marriages Now In This Country, Should It Be Made Unlawful?
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Marriage of first cousins does definitely carry a much greater risk of inheriting faulty genes. You have to bear in mind that marriages in the UK of cousins may mean that the same families have already interbred for generations in Pakistan, before the current generation arrived here. Instead of a couple having 32 different great-great grandparents, they may have only 10 or 12. Faulty genes thus become concentrated instead of diluted.
Oh so many years ago now (at least 25)! I can do sign language for the deaf, so was sent once or twice as a supply teacher to a specialist school in Bradford. The majority of pupils were multiple-handicapped Pakistani children. The staff explained how their intake had recently soared because of the prediliction for intermarriage of first cousins in the 'Community'.
Why, oh why has it taken this long for all these problems to be aired? I was screaming about them years ago and was ignored as an alarmist and possible racist! It is, and has been, rare for native British people to marry first cousins.
Why, oh why has it taken this long for all these problems to be aired? I was screaming about them years ago and was ignored as an alarmist and possible racist! It is, and has been, rare for native British people to marry first cousins.
well done Bazeel
queen victoria did it and look how her children turned out !
for the technically minded
you share half you genes with one parent
a quarter with that parent's parent ( or grandparent as we say )
an eighth with the grandparents sibling
a sixteenth with the grandparents other child
and a thrity twooth with the grandparents grandchild
or 3% of genes are identical with your cousin
Charles Darwin agonised about marrying Emma I think
and tabulated those firsts at Cge with first cousin marriages and also blues at sport and found no correlation
so he did ( marry his first cousin )
queen victoria did it and look how her children turned out !
for the technically minded
you share half you genes with one parent
a quarter with that parent's parent ( or grandparent as we say )
an eighth with the grandparents sibling
a sixteenth with the grandparents other child
and a thrity twooth with the grandparents grandchild
or 3% of genes are identical with your cousin
Charles Darwin agonised about marrying Emma I think
and tabulated those firsts at Cge with first cousin marriages and also blues at sport and found no correlation
so he did ( marry his first cousin )
@peter_pedant
The wiki page Bazile linked to is keen to point out that Victoria's cousin marriage was not the *cause* of the haemophilia gene coming about. The accepted theory being that it was a spontaneous mutation which occurred in her at any point between her own conception and the birth of whichever of her children was the first 'carrier' (clumsy phrasing leaves the impression that *all* her offspring became carriers, which might not be true but I don't have the facts to challenge such a claim).
Your computation references grandparents which I think implies second-cousin relationships (being 3%).
Your first cousin (viz Darwin) is your parent's sibling's child.
You have half your parent's DNA in common with your parent
Your parent's sibling has a diffferent "shuffle" of their parents' genes, so there are statistical odds of whether two copies of a problematic gene will combine in the offspring of that level of cousin marriage.
Having written that, I can now see why you referenced the grandparents but the shuffling of DNA at fertilisation is what makes siblings so different and the mathematical relationship is therefore not as clear-cut as you've set out.
The wiki page Bazile linked to is keen to point out that Victoria's cousin marriage was not the *cause* of the haemophilia gene coming about. The accepted theory being that it was a spontaneous mutation which occurred in her at any point between her own conception and the birth of whichever of her children was the first 'carrier' (clumsy phrasing leaves the impression that *all* her offspring became carriers, which might not be true but I don't have the facts to challenge such a claim).
Your computation references grandparents which I think implies second-cousin relationships (being 3%).
Your first cousin (viz Darwin) is your parent's sibling's child.
You have half your parent's DNA in common with your parent
Your parent's sibling has a diffferent "shuffle" of their parents' genes, so there are statistical odds of whether two copies of a problematic gene will combine in the offspring of that level of cousin marriage.
Having written that, I can now see why you referenced the grandparents but the shuffling of DNA at fertilisation is what makes siblings so different and the mathematical relationship is therefore not as clear-cut as you've set out.
A far better write-up than I could manage
https:/
Fast forward to the "Genetic definitions" section. Diagrams, if you want an 'at a glance' answer.
I was right though:- 3% in common relates to 2nd cousin. 12.5% for 1st cousins.
https:/
Fast forward to the "Genetic definitions" section. Diagrams, if you want an 'at a glance' answer.
I was right though:- 3% in common relates to 2nd cousin. 12.5% for 1st cousins.
jno
/// Eddie, what I was getting at was that aog said he had seen disabled children being taken round supermarkets. I argued that this wasn't necessarily linked to cousin marriages among Pakistanis. It may just be disabled children being taken out for the day. ///
That was just an example, among a group of disabled children the majority of them were of Asian and Black descent, and I come from an area where white British are the majority, so this highlights the fact that there is a such a problem among certain minorities.
/// Eddie, what I was getting at was that aog said he had seen disabled children being taken round supermarkets. I argued that this wasn't necessarily linked to cousin marriages among Pakistanis. It may just be disabled children being taken out for the day. ///
That was just an example, among a group of disabled children the majority of them were of Asian and Black descent, and I come from an area where white British are the majority, so this highlights the fact that there is a such a problem among certain minorities.
Not sure it should be made illegal, but obviously it should be discouraged. The reasons why we have had it for centuries are no longer applicable the UK today. It was a way of keeping familes wealthy, and why in very poor countries like Pakistan, keeping money close by coysin marriages still prevails.
But when you look at the figures, this is a very small problem. In the general population, less than 1% of babies are born with defects. Pakistanis are less than 2% of the uk population, and about 18% of births have defects.
Then there are other factors that cause defects. Would you ban anyone over 35 having children, because in terms of actaul numbers, more defects are cause by older parents than cousin marriages. Smoking and alcohol are orher major causes of defects.
But when you look at the figures, this is a very small problem. In the general population, less than 1% of babies are born with defects. Pakistanis are less than 2% of the uk population, and about 18% of births have defects.
Then there are other factors that cause defects. Would you ban anyone over 35 having children, because in terms of actaul numbers, more defects are cause by older parents than cousin marriages. Smoking and alcohol are orher major causes of defects.
// in terms of actaul numbers, more defects are cause by older parents than cousin marriages//
Indeed. And it is mostly down to the age of the male. Sperm are produced through splitting of a cell. One half become a sperm and the other half regenerates to become a sperm producing cell again.
Errors can happen during this process which cause the sperm producing cell to behave similarly to cancer cells and undergo more rapid division. Hence sperm from these faulty cells tend to become more dominant as the man ages.
The eggs cells of the female are all produced during gestation and mature later. No further division is involved in this process.
Marriage among muslims tends toward older husbands and this is likely to contribute to the increased problem of defects among Pakistani families.
Indeed. And it is mostly down to the age of the male. Sperm are produced through splitting of a cell. One half become a sperm and the other half regenerates to become a sperm producing cell again.
Errors can happen during this process which cause the sperm producing cell to behave similarly to cancer cells and undergo more rapid division. Hence sperm from these faulty cells tend to become more dominant as the man ages.
The eggs cells of the female are all produced during gestation and mature later. No further division is involved in this process.
Marriage among muslims tends toward older husbands and this is likely to contribute to the increased problem of defects among Pakistani families.
Gromit
/// Pakistanis are less than 2% of the uk population, and about 18% of births have defects. ///
I do not know where you got those figures from, but these show much more reason why it should be made illegal to marry one's first cousin.
*** Although British parents of Pakistani origin account for 3.4 per cent of all births nationwide, they also account for around 30 per cent of children born with recessive gene disorders. ***
*** While only 15 per cent of the population in Bradford is of Pakistani origin, an estimated 55 per cent are married to their first cousins. ***
*** The city has the second highest number of infant deaths in England and birth disorders involving recessive genes are 10 to 15 per cent higher than the general population, according to a study by St Luke's Hospital,
Bradford. ***
If a simple change of law can go some way to rectify the number of children being born with these disorders, and although it might offend a very small minority, it still has got to be a good thing.
/// Pakistanis are less than 2% of the uk population, and about 18% of births have defects. ///
I do not know where you got those figures from, but these show much more reason why it should be made illegal to marry one's first cousin.
*** Although British parents of Pakistani origin account for 3.4 per cent of all births nationwide, they also account for around 30 per cent of children born with recessive gene disorders. ***
*** While only 15 per cent of the population in Bradford is of Pakistani origin, an estimated 55 per cent are married to their first cousins. ***
*** The city has the second highest number of infant deaths in England and birth disorders involving recessive genes are 10 to 15 per cent higher than the general population, according to a study by St Luke's Hospital,
Bradford. ***
If a simple change of law can go some way to rectify the number of children being born with these disorders, and although it might offend a very small minority, it still has got to be a good thing.
-- answer removed --
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