ChatterBank16 mins ago
Possible Lynching?
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Er, right, ok guys, you know that referendum you had last week.....etc
How is Tsipras going to explain that despite voting him in on a non austerity ticket and also voting against austerity in the referendum, he's gone and done a deal that is more austere than the previous austerity that they elected him to get shot of? Mussolini moment?
Er, right, ok guys, you know that referendum you had last week.....etc
How is Tsipras going to explain that despite voting him in on a non austerity ticket and also voting against austerity in the referendum, he's gone and done a deal that is more austere than the previous austerity that they elected him to get shot of? Mussolini moment?
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Why should we have to contribute to this farce, we aren't in the Euro zone.
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"Why should we have to contribute to this farce, we aren't in the Euro zone. "
apparrently out of the dosh the bubbles owe 6.4 billion is ours...sooo instead of giving those dictators at the eussr our usual 11 plus billion each year lets deducut the money owed from the next lot and bingo money back !...
as for the septics theyre owed a few billion more than us...its peanuts to a country that deals in trillions...
apparrently out of the dosh the bubbles owe 6.4 billion is ours...sooo instead of giving those dictators at the eussr our usual 11 plus billion each year lets deducut the money owed from the next lot and bingo money back !...
as for the septics theyre owed a few billion more than us...its peanuts to a country that deals in trillions...
"Why should we have to contribute to this farce, we aren't in the Euro zone."
Because, alas, we are members of the EU. The European Financial Stability Mechanism is being considered for this temporary fnding and all EU nations must contribute to that fund.
How will you be voting in our referendum, tony?
Because, alas, we are members of the EU. The European Financial Stability Mechanism is being considered for this temporary fnding and all EU nations must contribute to that fund.
How will you be voting in our referendum, tony?
You'd think Tsipras would be for the high jump wouldn't you?
Call a referendum and get "the people" to say "no" to the evil dictators of the Fourth Soviet Reich or whatever it is we're calling the EU today.
And then end up with an even worse package than the one he got the people to reject.
He does have a big advantage though: he may be rubbish as a Prime Minister but compared to the lot who preceded him he is probably still seen as a "success" for at least "making a stand"
Yes, it really is that bad
Call a referendum and get "the people" to say "no" to the evil dictators of the Fourth Soviet Reich or whatever it is we're calling the EU today.
And then end up with an even worse package than the one he got the people to reject.
He does have a big advantage though: he may be rubbish as a Prime Minister but compared to the lot who preceded him he is probably still seen as a "success" for at least "making a stand"
Yes, it really is that bad
He could try saying that he has screwed a heck of a lot of more money out of the EU for much the same deal as they were offering last week. It's still a thin argument, but the best he's got. That's in answer to the question.
Most of us remember the Versailles Treaty and what happened because Germany was screwed to the ground.
Yes, the Greeks have been hugely profligate, but the EU has shown its true colours now so we should be grateful to them for that (despite today's scandal, UKIP should be cheering) . Tsipras may have to resign, but that is probably the least of the problems which will arise. However, let's wait and see if he can force this deal through their parliament. It is at that point that very hard thinking will happen and S will hit F.!
Most of us remember the Versailles Treaty and what happened because Germany was screwed to the ground.
Yes, the Greeks have been hugely profligate, but the EU has shown its true colours now so we should be grateful to them for that (despite today's scandal, UKIP should be cheering) . Tsipras may have to resign, but that is probably the least of the problems which will arise. However, let's wait and see if he can force this deal through their parliament. It is at that point that very hard thinking will happen and S will hit F.!
Everything’s quiet in the little Greek Village. The sun beats down and the square is deserted. Times are tough, everyone is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
A rich German drives into the village. He stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, saying he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs, before deciding whether to spend the night there. The owner gives him the keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay the money he owes to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to settle his bill with the animal feed supplier.
The feed supplier takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The owner slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the German will not suspect anything.
At that moment the German comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves.
No one produced anything. Nobody earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that is how the Greek bailout package is supposed to work!
A rich German drives into the village. He stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, saying he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs, before deciding whether to spend the night there. The owner gives him the keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay the money he owes to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to settle his bill with the animal feed supplier.
The feed supplier takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The owner slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the German will not suspect anything.
At that moment the German comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves.
No one produced anything. Nobody earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that is how the Greek bailout package is supposed to work!
If anyone is going to get a political lynching it is Merkel. The German tax-payer much be very angry. Which is why this defeat for the EU is being dressed up as being a cave in by the Greeks. It isn't. Tsipras Is in no danger.
Amusing to see people on here who are anti-EU, believing them and swallowing the line you have been fed. The truth is that Greece was never going to be allowed to fail. Tsipras Knows that, which is why he has been able to play them like a fiddle.
Amusing to see people on here who are anti-EU, believing them and swallowing the line you have been fed. The truth is that Greece was never going to be allowed to fail. Tsipras Knows that, which is why he has been able to play them like a fiddle.
Before Greece joined the €uro, it's borrowing was very expensive, about 18%. When it joined the €uro in 2002 the cost of borrowing suddenly got very cheap, about 3% and they quickly racked up a lot of debt. When the Financial Crash came in 2008, the international credit agencies suddenly changed Greeces rating and the cost of borrowing became very expensive again. It could no longer afford to borrow conventionally, so it had to ask for a bailout. It got more money, but the problem of how it would repay it remained.
Everyone knew in 2000 that Greece fudged the figures to meet the criteria for joining the €uro, so the EU are culpable too for Greeces problems.
Everyone knew in 2000 that Greece fudged the figures to meet the criteria for joining the €uro, so the EU are culpable too for Greeces problems.
"The truth is that Greece was never going to be allowed to fail. Tsipras Knows that, which is why he has been able to play them like a fiddle. "
Greece should not be allowed to fail of course. But the issue is "how"
Mr Tsipras was elected on a mandate of "Keep the Euro, bin austerity" which was never, ever going to work. How he thought it might work was presumably a cynical take on the eurosceptics: "they'll never let us leave the euro"
However it was pretty obvious that they were prepared to do that.
All Mr Tsipras has achieved is drawing out the whole process to make things even more painful for the Greek people.
Greece should not be allowed to fail of course. But the issue is "how"
Mr Tsipras was elected on a mandate of "Keep the Euro, bin austerity" which was never, ever going to work. How he thought it might work was presumably a cynical take on the eurosceptics: "they'll never let us leave the euro"
However it was pretty obvious that they were prepared to do that.
All Mr Tsipras has achieved is drawing out the whole process to make things even more painful for the Greek people.
Tora,
Part of the deal is the setting up of a €50billion fund for debt repayment. That means repayments will be a lot more closely monitored by the creditors.
Whether we go through this all again in 6 months depends on how Greece's debts are re-scheduled. They cannot afford the current repayments. Even the IMF have said the forced austerity has not worked. Greece needs to grow their economy, but they cannot do that while every cent is going toward repayments. They need to be able to have some money stimulate their economy and pay off debts.
Part of the deal is the setting up of a €50billion fund for debt repayment. That means repayments will be a lot more closely monitored by the creditors.
Whether we go through this all again in 6 months depends on how Greece's debts are re-scheduled. They cannot afford the current repayments. Even the IMF have said the forced austerity has not worked. Greece needs to grow their economy, but they cannot do that while every cent is going toward repayments. They need to be able to have some money stimulate their economy and pay off debts.
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