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Is It Too Late To Stop England Being Predominantly English?
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/// ‘I do think a multicultural society can be a good thing, but when it’s at the cost of your own culture and history, then it’s gone too far and it would be very sad if London stopped being predominantly English.’ ///
It would be sad if England stopped being predominantly English Mr Stamp, but eh! is it too late?
/// ‘I do think a multicultural society can be a good thing, but when it’s at the cost of your own culture and history, then it’s gone too far and it would be very sad if London stopped being predominantly English.’ ///
It would be sad if England stopped being predominantly English Mr Stamp, but eh! is it too late?
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//I'll bet the Spanish have much the same to say about the ex-pat Brit colonies in their midst.
//
Except I think you will find most do speak Spanish. The Spanish dont translate thing for you so if you dont learn then you wont get far.
In this country we bend over backwards and have even allowed another law to be practised.
//
Except I think you will find most do speak Spanish. The Spanish dont translate thing for you so if you dont learn then you wont get far.
In this country we bend over backwards and have even allowed another law to be practised.
//I'll bet the Spanish have much the same to say about the ex-pat Brit colonies in their midst.//
Not in my experience. I doubt very much you’ll encounter the enormous diversity of culture in Spain that Terence Stamp is talking about – and that’s what he is talking about. I know Spain very well – and I know Green Street very well – and he’s right.
Not in my experience. I doubt very much you’ll encounter the enormous diversity of culture in Spain that Terence Stamp is talking about – and that’s what he is talking about. I know Spain very well – and I know Green Street very well – and he’s right.
"ichkeria
We now live in 21st century England. "
We do aog, however Mr Stamp's talking about London, and I wonder if there was ever a time when London did not have a high proportion of foreign migrants, bringing their exotic languages, customs (and indeed fruit, which it seems he is rather keen on) :-)
Same for many other big, bustling cities the world over
We now live in 21st century England. "
We do aog, however Mr Stamp's talking about London, and I wonder if there was ever a time when London did not have a high proportion of foreign migrants, bringing their exotic languages, customs (and indeed fruit, which it seems he is rather keen on) :-)
Same for many other big, bustling cities the world over
Poorly worded question with a reference to something which has very little to do with it.
England is nowhere near not being predominantly English:
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England is nowhere near not being predominantly English:
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You cannot stop change happening.
People have been moving around the world since the dawn of mankind and bringing their habits and language with them.
I am an immigrant and often find that although my spoken English is at least as comprehensible as most of my fellow citizens, English communication can be difficult for incomers.
The use of colourful terminology can be a problem.
For instance, "banging on about" for "speaking about".
"Rattling off" for "telling".
Spoken English has many quaint phrases in use, that the natives never give a moments though to, but can be puzzling for newcomers.
A wonderful language, constantly evolving, but it takes a bit of learning!
People have been moving around the world since the dawn of mankind and bringing their habits and language with them.
I am an immigrant and often find that although my spoken English is at least as comprehensible as most of my fellow citizens, English communication can be difficult for incomers.
The use of colourful terminology can be a problem.
For instance, "banging on about" for "speaking about".
"Rattling off" for "telling".
Spoken English has many quaint phrases in use, that the natives never give a moments though to, but can be puzzling for newcomers.
A wonderful language, constantly evolving, but it takes a bit of learning!
"Is it too late to stop England being predominantly English?"
I've read that a few times now, and I'm still not sure if it's phrased correctly.
I think we are onto a loser here because the deck is already stacked.
As some members of AB contend, if you are not of English stock, or able to pass as thus by being of Northern European stock, then no matter how much you embrace the English language, traditions, lifestyle etc - you won't be English.
Therefore, if you look at the demographic of (say) Brixton, Walworth or Peckham, where the 'non-English' mix with the English in schools, the workplace, in football and cricket stadia - some will still complain.
This has been going on for decades...from way before any issue with the non-integration of Muslim communities.
Just by having non-White skin, some will deem you non-English, so it doesn't matter what you do to try to integrate...the whole 'dog born in a stable' thing will always prevail.
Not a criticism of anyone...just an observation.
I've read that a few times now, and I'm still not sure if it's phrased correctly.
I think we are onto a loser here because the deck is already stacked.
As some members of AB contend, if you are not of English stock, or able to pass as thus by being of Northern European stock, then no matter how much you embrace the English language, traditions, lifestyle etc - you won't be English.
Therefore, if you look at the demographic of (say) Brixton, Walworth or Peckham, where the 'non-English' mix with the English in schools, the workplace, in football and cricket stadia - some will still complain.
This has been going on for decades...from way before any issue with the non-integration of Muslim communities.
Just by having non-White skin, some will deem you non-English, so it doesn't matter what you do to try to integrate...the whole 'dog born in a stable' thing will always prevail.
Not a criticism of anyone...just an observation.
No it was not “ever thus”, Ichkeria. At least not on the scale and with the rapidity that we are seeing today. And yes, I would suggest the change has been from something better.
What you say is certainly true, Zacs. From your figures about 80% are "British" (though that includes Scotland Wales and NI as well). But bear in mind that those figures are four years old and last year alone over 600,000 people arrived from abroad to settle here.
However, that is not what Mr Stamp refers to. He is speaking about London and mentions East London in particular. I know East London very well and lived there for a quarter of a century. It has always been a lively melting pot of nationalities. Where I lived I had a Jamaican family living on one side, an Italian Jehovah’s Witness on the other and a Turkish barber living directly opposite. We all got on well, we chatted to each other and helped each other out.
In many parts of the East End now that is certainly not the case. Whole areas are occupied by predominantly Asian families and most of them have no intention of integrating with anybody who is not like them. The biggest barrier to this is language. There is no way young Asian mothers are going to muddle along with the (few) white families that remain there as they cannot speak to each other to share their problems and joys.
I’ve not lived in Spain but I cannot imagine there are huge areas (by which I mean boroughs or the equivalent, not a few streets) of, say, British ex-pats who live there with no intention of getting along with their Spanish neighbours. The same cannot be said of many places in East London (or indeed many other places in England).
Many people suggest that views such as those expressed by Mr Stamp are out of kilter with reality without actually experiencing what he’s talking about. I’ve suggested examples many times in the past but you don’t have to take my word for it. Take a train to Liverpool Street, have a roam down Middlesex Street and across to Brick Lane. Then explore the back streets between Whitechapel Road and Commercial Road. When you’re fed up with that head a little further east beyond Canning Town and take a stroll along the Barking Road through West Ham, Upton Park and into East Ham. Do so on a Friday afternoon after Friday prayers have chucked out.
The area I’ve described is not a small settlement. It is a large area, some seven or eight miles from east to west (and it doesn’t end there). Whilst you’re having a look see if you feel like you’re in (what used to be) England. Then let me know if you think Mr Stamp is talking cobblers or not.
What you say is certainly true, Zacs. From your figures about 80% are "British" (though that includes Scotland Wales and NI as well). But bear in mind that those figures are four years old and last year alone over 600,000 people arrived from abroad to settle here.
However, that is not what Mr Stamp refers to. He is speaking about London and mentions East London in particular. I know East London very well and lived there for a quarter of a century. It has always been a lively melting pot of nationalities. Where I lived I had a Jamaican family living on one side, an Italian Jehovah’s Witness on the other and a Turkish barber living directly opposite. We all got on well, we chatted to each other and helped each other out.
In many parts of the East End now that is certainly not the case. Whole areas are occupied by predominantly Asian families and most of them have no intention of integrating with anybody who is not like them. The biggest barrier to this is language. There is no way young Asian mothers are going to muddle along with the (few) white families that remain there as they cannot speak to each other to share their problems and joys.
I’ve not lived in Spain but I cannot imagine there are huge areas (by which I mean boroughs or the equivalent, not a few streets) of, say, British ex-pats who live there with no intention of getting along with their Spanish neighbours. The same cannot be said of many places in East London (or indeed many other places in England).
Many people suggest that views such as those expressed by Mr Stamp are out of kilter with reality without actually experiencing what he’s talking about. I’ve suggested examples many times in the past but you don’t have to take my word for it. Take a train to Liverpool Street, have a roam down Middlesex Street and across to Brick Lane. Then explore the back streets between Whitechapel Road and Commercial Road. When you’re fed up with that head a little further east beyond Canning Town and take a stroll along the Barking Road through West Ham, Upton Park and into East Ham. Do so on a Friday afternoon after Friday prayers have chucked out.
The area I’ve described is not a small settlement. It is a large area, some seven or eight miles from east to west (and it doesn’t end there). Whilst you’re having a look see if you feel like you’re in (what used to be) England. Then let me know if you think Mr Stamp is talking cobblers or not.
Anyone wanting to take that tour from Liverpool Street onwards is also advised to do exactly the same trip, but this time at 19:30 on a Friday night.
I used to work in Goodmans Fields (near Aldgate East station) for over a decade, so I know the area well. The character of the Aldgate Triangle (as we used to call it) changes dependent on the time of day and the day of the week.
Friday nights, it's full of drunk bankers.
Saturday and Sunday afternoons, it's full of 'trustifarians' in their Birkenstocks looking for the next hip hangout to boast about in the letters pages of Time Out.
I used to work in Goodmans Fields (near Aldgate East station) for over a decade, so I know the area well. The character of the Aldgate Triangle (as we used to call it) changes dependent on the time of day and the day of the week.
Friday nights, it's full of drunk bankers.
Saturday and Sunday afternoons, it's full of 'trustifarians' in their Birkenstocks looking for the next hip hangout to boast about in the letters pages of Time Out.
-- answer removed --
Some interesting figures, and not a mention of European Immigrants.
8 million people or 14% of the UK population belong to an ethnic minority
The 5 largest distinct minority communities are (in order of size):
Indian, 1,412,958
Pakistani, 1,124,511
Black African, 989,628
Black Caribbean, 59,4825
Bangladeshi, 44,7201
The UK’s Bangladeshi population represents the largest concentration of
Bangladeshis anywhere outside Bangladesh. The UK is also home to the second largest Indian population in the western world
Over the past decade, the UK’s White population has remained roughly the
same size whilst the minority population has almost doubled
l
BME groups accounted for almost all (80%) of the UK’s population growth
Black Africans are the fastest growing distinct ethnic group. The slowest
growing are White and Black Caribbean groups
People of Mixed ethnicity now represent the second largest (non-distinct)
minority population, and are the fastest growing
With the exception of the Black Caribbean population, all BME groups display
a much younger age structure than the White population
Ethnic minorities represent just 5% of the Over-60 population, but 25% of
the Under-10 population
The median age of BME communities ranges from 22 (Bangladeshis) to 38
(Black Caribbeans). The White median age is 39
By 2051, it is estimated that BME communities will represent between
20–30% of the UK’s population
BME groups are highly concentrated, living mostly in just a few very large
cities
Someone from a BME background is seven times more likely to live in an
urban area than someone who is White
l
98% of BME residents live in urban areas compared to 80% of White
residents
http://
8 million people or 14% of the UK population belong to an ethnic minority
The 5 largest distinct minority communities are (in order of size):
Indian, 1,412,958
Pakistani, 1,124,511
Black African, 989,628
Black Caribbean, 59,4825
Bangladeshi, 44,7201
The UK’s Bangladeshi population represents the largest concentration of
Bangladeshis anywhere outside Bangladesh. The UK is also home to the second largest Indian population in the western world
Over the past decade, the UK’s White population has remained roughly the
same size whilst the minority population has almost doubled
l
BME groups accounted for almost all (80%) of the UK’s population growth
Black Africans are the fastest growing distinct ethnic group. The slowest
growing are White and Black Caribbean groups
People of Mixed ethnicity now represent the second largest (non-distinct)
minority population, and are the fastest growing
With the exception of the Black Caribbean population, all BME groups display
a much younger age structure than the White population
Ethnic minorities represent just 5% of the Over-60 population, but 25% of
the Under-10 population
The median age of BME communities ranges from 22 (Bangladeshis) to 38
(Black Caribbeans). The White median age is 39
By 2051, it is estimated that BME communities will represent between
20–30% of the UK’s population
BME groups are highly concentrated, living mostly in just a few very large
cities
Someone from a BME background is seven times more likely to live in an
urban area than someone who is White
l
98% of BME residents live in urban areas compared to 80% of White
residents
http://
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