Compassionate Conservatism At Work ?

[Canary42]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/two-thousand-people-have-died-soon-after-being-declared--fit-for-work-141820736.html#OHJVuix

[VHG]

Those isolated figures mean little as you don't know what the total figure of people assessed by DWP is, you don't know their ages or disabilities were, and you have nothing to compare death rates of other groups of similar people.

December 2011 to February 2014 is about 750 days (give or take) so that is an average of 3 deaths a day. How does that compare with other groups of people with disabilities?

How many of those people would have died even if they had NOT been assessed by the DWP.

You have to be very careful with statistics.

I go out every night and blow a trumpet in my front garden. And in all that time I have never seen an elephant walking down my street. Does that prove that blowing a trumpet keep away elephants,

Of course not.

[VHG]

As it says on the Guardian web site

"There was widespread acceptance among campaigners that the data presented should be treated with caution.

Tom Pollard, policy and campaigns manager at mental health charity Mind, said it was hard to comment on the statistics as they only revealed the number of people who have died while on ESA, not the circumstances or details of the deaths".

[jim360]

I can't say I'm a fan of IDS and the recent Conservative policies on, in particular, disability benefits. But it seems to me that this statistic is astonishingly high if each of the deaths was in circumstances directly related to the assessment/ condition being assessed. I'd expect more than a few of the cases to be tragic accidents that would be independent of the capability assessment.

Treat with caution, indeed.

[douglas9401]

Absolutely correct. It's only the stuff that shows governments in a bad light that should be treated with caution.
All good news on the other hand should be swallow whole.

[dannyk13]

Don't blame the government,blame the doctors who carried out the examinations.

[slaney]

Danny, the assessment is no longer a medical assessment, but a "functional assessment" and doctors have largely been replaced by other health care professionals called disability analysts, such as nurses , physiotherapists, and occupational therapists.
They follow a computer system called LiMA.
I understand that the final decision as to fitness is made by someone in the DWP with no medical training.

[TWR]

I.D.S. Is this person evil? Is he taking it out on people because he was useless as the Con leader? If he was in any other country of the world would he have been taken out?

[dannyk13]

Things have changed since I had an assessment (30 yrs ago) when the assessors were usually out of work doctors.

[Sqad]

danny

\\\\assessors were usually out of work doctors.\\\

Not so......a system of Medical Appeal Tribunals composed of a lawyer (Barrister) with some Gp's and Consultants, many of whom were still in fulltime employment......a nice little "earner" on the side.

[slaney]

Out of work doctors, Danny, or retired GPs:)

I found the figures difficult to interpret, but I see that according to Ben Goldacre we have not got the information we need to make a proper assessment - we need to ask a different question.

https://storify.com/bengoldacre/how-dwp-has-confused-everyone-by-releasing-the-rig

[dannyk13]

Slaney, Doctors who didn't have other positions according to my GP when I asked him at the time of my assessment.

[Old_Geezer]

It sounds awful at face value. But is a small percentage of the >1M tested to see if they are fit for work. Needs investigating though. One can't help feeling they are finding false negatives on the test whilst prioritising avoiding false positives. It's better to miss a small amount of 'swinging the lead' than failing to help folk with genuine difficulties.

[Peter Pedant]

Hi Babies

thx for the conts from Sqad and Slaney

Atos ( nicknamed A *** - Atossa is a name that crops up in Greek by the way ) gave up the contract for assessment after a campaign that could be called " attack a doc in the street" anyway the violence offered to the staff was judged too great ( by the staff that is ! )

Also the appeal rate was around 67%. I was involved in one and wasnt impressed with the standards shown

The tribunal work is really the appeal stage and is mentioned by Sqad - is available and both S and Slaney could apply if they want. Usual channels - nowadays in fact you would have to negotiate with their employer for it to be in "free time". With 24h working that wouldnt be a problem. Employers like to think they own you for 24h a day but are in fact not prepared to pay for the privilege.
But what is tribunal work like ? well its 9-5 ! but you are 'trained' and have to follow the "rules" for which you get training and there is very little room for what we would call clinical freedom. Do well ( = follow the rules) and you get to be panel chairman !

Looked at it and thought I would prefer to be retired to be honest.

[-Talbot-]

Of the 2,380, 1,340 died after appealing against their decisions,

Clearly some folk had been given a death sentence... it needs investigating

[slaney]

I was never in the slightest bit tempted PP :)

[dannyk13]

Sqad. I am not talking about appeals tribunals. Back in the day after claiming Disability Benefit you had to be examined by an independent (not your GP) doctor to assess your degree of disability.

[-Talbot-]

PP..Lenny Henry has been looking for you, could you plrase take a look
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1440850.html

Apologies, Canary.

[Sqad]

danny.......right.

[Svejk]

12% of the people convicted in the 2010 riots were on some kind of disability/incapacity allowance which, to me, suggests something needed to be done.
Despite the 'abuse' the unemployed get in AB, it's my experience that the people abusing the welfare system usually claim some kind of long term sickness benefit. Obviously not casting aspersions on the genuinely sick/disabled.