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Judge Us On Our Record An Intersting Challenge
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This is certainly an interesting challenge what has the record of the SNP been so far pretty disastrous I would think
This is certainly an interesting challenge what has the record of the SNP been so far pretty disastrous I would think
Answers
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I might be wrong on this but its my opinion that the SNP will eventually fall back to its previous position as a minor Party, in Scotland as well as Westminster.
If it hadn't have been for the referendum a few months previous to this May's General Election, its unlikely that the SNP would have scored the near landslide. What is even more surprising, is that the Referendum result was a pretty resoundingly NO, with less than 38% of the Scottish electorate voting YES, and yet they managed to get so many votes in May.
Most of the SNP's case for separation depended on Scottish oil, and that is now worth a fraction of what it used to. If Saudi Arabia is having financial problems, just think how an independent Scotland would fare !
If it hadn't have been for the referendum a few months previous to this May's General Election, its unlikely that the SNP would have scored the near landslide. What is even more surprising, is that the Referendum result was a pretty resoundingly NO, with less than 38% of the Scottish electorate voting YES, and yet they managed to get so many votes in May.
Most of the SNP's case for separation depended on Scottish oil, and that is now worth a fraction of what it used to. If Saudi Arabia is having financial problems, just think how an independent Scotland would fare !
Retro....I met a chap yesterday, who works in Tata, at the Margam Works in Port Talbot.
He has been there since he left school and is in his mid 40's now. According to him, it won't be long before Tata pull out of steel making in the UK altogether. This would be a huge blow for South Wales in general and Port Talbot in particular. As long as the Chinese are going to dump their unwanted steel in Britain, at knock-down prices, this situation is will only get worse.
I have made this point many times before but Britain is an island nation and to import every ruddy thing we need is just madness ! We just leave ourselves at the mercy of foreigners.
British jobs for British people !
He has been there since he left school and is in his mid 40's now. According to him, it won't be long before Tata pull out of steel making in the UK altogether. This would be a huge blow for South Wales in general and Port Talbot in particular. As long as the Chinese are going to dump their unwanted steel in Britain, at knock-down prices, this situation is will only get worse.
I have made this point many times before but Britain is an island nation and to import every ruddy thing we need is just madness ! We just leave ourselves at the mercy of foreigners.
British jobs for British people !
The SNP's record so far has indeed been disastrous - for the Scottish Labour Party and generally those who are spiritually wedded to the status quo.
For those who are willing to think afresh, independence holds the possibility of doing better than the UK, perhaps as well as other European countries of similar population size, maybe even as well as, for example, little Iceland which fairly consistently outdoes the UK on the social and economic measures that really matter, often by an enormous margin. The other countries are only outdone by the UK where the criterion is sheer size (grand total - not per capita statistics, quality of life, etc.), surprise surprise. Of course, facing backward toward past battles, wars, conquests and empire (historical nostalgia and perceived superiority) would be replaced by facing forward (reality, no more illusions or "heroic" adventures). It might be contagious and also wake up and thus benefit the remaining UK - I suspect Scotland and the world would welcome that.
Oh, the comparison countries do not significantly, if at all, benefit from oil or gas (Norway thus excluded) - Scotland has just as good assets in other respects, established activities/earners and not least its people - oil was always stated as a bonus not to be squandered (on propping up failing governance). Saying that Scotland could not survive outside the UK was the nonsense and insult that raised the Yes total from the predicted 12-20% initially (cocky UK establishment) to 45% at the end (incontinence pads de-rigueur) after frankly pathetic spectacles with much of ex and current Westminster making fools of themselves (but admittedly swaying those afraid of change, and there are many of those) - make no mistake, the referendum was an enormous SNP success.
For those who are willing to think afresh, independence holds the possibility of doing better than the UK, perhaps as well as other European countries of similar population size, maybe even as well as, for example, little Iceland which fairly consistently outdoes the UK on the social and economic measures that really matter, often by an enormous margin. The other countries are only outdone by the UK where the criterion is sheer size (grand total - not per capita statistics, quality of life, etc.), surprise surprise. Of course, facing backward toward past battles, wars, conquests and empire (historical nostalgia and perceived superiority) would be replaced by facing forward (reality, no more illusions or "heroic" adventures). It might be contagious and also wake up and thus benefit the remaining UK - I suspect Scotland and the world would welcome that.
Oh, the comparison countries do not significantly, if at all, benefit from oil or gas (Norway thus excluded) - Scotland has just as good assets in other respects, established activities/earners and not least its people - oil was always stated as a bonus not to be squandered (on propping up failing governance). Saying that Scotland could not survive outside the UK was the nonsense and insult that raised the Yes total from the predicted 12-20% initially (cocky UK establishment) to 45% at the end (incontinence pads de-rigueur) after frankly pathetic spectacles with much of ex and current Westminster making fools of themselves (but admittedly swaying those afraid of change, and there are many of those) - make no mistake, the referendum was an enormous SNP success.
I think that they are in a stronger position than it might appear from the disappointing figures on things liek health and education, as I think they can still claim the blame lies with the way the system is stacked against them , London gets all the resources, Scotland is hardest hit by austerity, etc
Mikey
"What is even more surprising, is that the Referendum result was a pretty resoundingly NO, with less than 38% of the Scottish electorate voting YES, and yet they managed to get so many votes in May. "
I don't know why it's surprising, using your method of calculating the YES vote less than 50%" of the Scottish electorate voted NO (I think about 48%) that's about how many never voted for the SNP at the general election ;)
"What is even more surprising, is that the Referendum result was a pretty resoundingly NO, with less than 38% of the Scottish electorate voting YES, and yet they managed to get so many votes in May. "
I don't know why it's surprising, using your method of calculating the YES vote less than 50%" of the Scottish electorate voted NO (I think about 48%) that's about how many never voted for the SNP at the general election ;)
Steg...I was just pointing out that the referendum result wasn't as close as some of the SNP would have us believe. Also, lets not forget that the turnout was 85%, which would have been a very respectable result for a General Election. For instance, in May, the turnout in Scotland was 71%
As the YES camp were led by the SNP, its even more surprising that they did so well in the Election, for which they must be congratulated.
But, as I said, I don't think their popularity will last.
As the YES camp were led by the SNP, its even more surprising that they did so well in the Election, for which they must be congratulated.
But, as I said, I don't think their popularity will last.
If it sounded xenophobic, then that was not my intention Talbot !
I just feel that we are importing unemployment, as well as steel, as long as China decides to dump its surplus on us. We went through all this during the de-industrialisation policies of the 80's, and many areas affected by this have never recovered. I am not an economist but its seems that we should be able to protect our own workers much better than we do. I wonder if this Government is really trying, as the areas that are effected will never return a Tory MP to Westminster.
If all the steelworks, etc, were situated in leafy Surrey, I am sure we would see more alacrity from dave.
I just feel that we are importing unemployment, as well as steel, as long as China decides to dump its surplus on us. We went through all this during the de-industrialisation policies of the 80's, and many areas affected by this have never recovered. I am not an economist but its seems that we should be able to protect our own workers much better than we do. I wonder if this Government is really trying, as the areas that are effected will never return a Tory MP to Westminster.
If all the steelworks, etc, were situated in leafy Surrey, I am sure we would see more alacrity from dave.
Mikey
The official rounded result of the referendum was 55% NO - 45% YES ,every one up here knows it , hence the "we are the 45"slogan used by the YES supporters after and still... So they actually advertise the result, so I don't get the "wasn't as close as some of the SNP would have us believe " comment
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It's yourself and a few others that seem to want to make the result sound more different than it was
The official rounded result of the referendum was 55% NO - 45% YES ,every one up here knows it , hence the "we are the 45"slogan used by the YES supporters after and still... So they actually advertise the result, so I don't get the "wasn't as close as some of the SNP would have us believe " comment
http://
It's yourself and a few others that seem to want to make the result sound more different than it was
Naomi, you seem to miss the point: The SNP is a Scottish party, not a UK one and the SNP see the UK as the co-operative of separate countries that it is declared to be (the hint is in "United"). They are of course not looking to protect the interests of the other members of the UK nor do they seek to harm those interests - unless you believe that Scotland currently supports one or more of the rest (hmmmm.......could it be ?) and that as a result its withdrawal from the co-operative leaves the rest worse off. The basis is that Scotland is as, or better, able to look after itself than the co-op is currently doing for the whole - as each of the other parts could if they chose to - simply because the status quo is unsatisfactory (opposite to the "stronger together" argument). They also, by the way, do not equate United Kingdom to Britain and to England, as is of course entirely wrong but a surprisingly common error.
Ah, Naomi, so you meant all the countries, the union - of course the SNP are not interested in preserving it, no need for any doubt/hesitation over the question. We were obviously at some sort of cross purposes.
Totally different: I never thought about it before, naomi24, surely your username isn't actually suggesting you are 91 years old this year ? If you are, well done - I hope your health is good.
Totally different: I never thought about it before, naomi24, surely your username isn't actually suggesting you are 91 years old this year ? If you are, well done - I hope your health is good.
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