Isis, A Terrifying New World Order ?

[Khandro]

Are our leaders getting it all wrong ?

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/islamic-state-is-making-its-threats-a-reality/

[naomi24]

Yes, they are.

[Old_Geezer]

I'd suspect yes, but it is difficult to know which is the best bad option.

BTW The downing of the Russian airliner shows the potential of poor airport security to cause havoc, nothing more.

[naomi24]

^I disagree. It also demonstrates intention.

[Old_Geezer]

Of the airport ?
Any terrorist group can plan bombs where there is insufficient checking. We already know terrorist groups need atrocities.

[anotheoldgit]

Yes and some Europeans are allowing them to infiltrate into Europe, on a terrifying scale.

[maurice]

Refugees are extremely seldom terrorists

[-Talbot-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34798126?ns_mchannel=social&;ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

[Khandro]

//17 people in raids in several European countries//
Well I guess it's something, but it's hardly a major blow. Shouldn't we align ourselves with Putin (at least in moral) and drop Washington's dangerous nonsense about aiding the "good guys", OR, alternatively sit on our fannies and watch the world go into meltdown.
Very dangerous times ahead, and good leadership is needed.
Only Moscow is alone showing any and has just paid a terrible price.

[ichkeria]

I don't think things have come to the pass where we should be taking a moral lead from the president of Russia :-)
One quote from the article makes me glad I have not get started on my cup of coffee
"Taking stock of a new reality is what Vladimir Putin, the caliph’s main adversary, is also busy doing."
And here's another corker:
"However, with appalling cynicism Washington is happy, for the time being, to watch Putin sink deeper into the Syrian quagmire"
Er, that would be the quagmire the athletics drug baron walked into himself, I think,
Anyway, that nonsense aside yes of course IS is a terrifying prospect, if not quite a "world order exactly" There isn't, actually, any evidence that the likely bomb in Egypt was an IS devised crime. It may have been the work of Egyptian jihadis, long in the planning, which of course IS can tailcoat due to the close links developing between them
Whether that should have us feel any better or not is debatable
We live in a dangerous world but one thing we SHOULD take comfort from is that actually this sort of attack is very rare.

[youngmafbog]

//Refugees are extremely seldom terrorists//

Maybe not, but terrorists masquerade as refugees.

All those single young men, youre telling me there are few terrorists? ISIS threatened to flood Europe with jihadists and they are doing it. I would not be surprised to see them aiding the boats to carry them.

[Zacs-Master]

Strapline under the headline 'The downing of the Russian airliner shows its potential to cause havoc on a global scale'

No it doesn't. It shows their ability to bring down one aircraft in a country where airport security is a little lax. This rather set the tone for the article.

[naomi24]

Complacency will be our downfall.

[Khandro]

Zacs; I think naomi is right, I find your unperturbed attitude as worrying as ISIS itself. You quote; //The downing of the Russian airliner shows its potential to cause havoc on a global scale// this could certainly be true, but not by repeat action, and as long as we think it will be another bomb on another plane and spend much more money and energy and cause more inconvenience, on airport security the better they will like it and can turn their attention on other methods of causing havoc.
One big fear should be war in cyberspace, some of these guys are very smart on computer technology - they should be, they were trained by us at our expense!! Henry Kissinger on this subject said recently, 'if our banking system were to be brought down by an adversary, there is no equivalent step to retaliate. It could escalate in ways none of the leaders could predict.'
We'd better shape-up, sez I.

[ichkeria]

I agree with Zacs as it happens, but in any case why are you worried by what people think here? Why do you think (if you do) that governments are not "shaping up"?
This writer has a good CV: he knows Egypt and Saudi Arabia well, but he's not very clued up on Russia, FWIW. Russia's military intervention in Syria is of little relevance, really (it may not even be the motivation behind the probable recent bomb attack), other than having the desired effect of making people sit up and take notice of Putin, the same way you might notice the street preacher or the busker :-)

[Khandro]

ichkeria; Do you think they are fooling? Reuters today;

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/12/uk-mideast-crisis-russia-islamicstate-idUKKCN0T11PV20151112

[jourdain2]

Yes, they've got it wrong. I've known of the intransigence of Islam for many years and ISIL has become a focal point that is rapidly (as far as I can see) becoming something that it is anathema for Muslims to condemn.

Once the border between Christendom and Islam was at Poitiers, I think that we may return to a similar situation, only worse because of the wide spread of terrorists.

[ichkeria]

Khandro I am not sure I see the relevance of your question to what u ashes you which was do you think there's a germ betel complacency among western Govts regarding the threat, not that it's s question I really need to know the answer too :-)
IS I agree are a terrifying prospect. Beyond that tho it is very easy to make apocalyptic statements which don't actually serve any purpose. I suspect we don't know the half of what is being done to counter the threat but there is not an easy solution

[ichkeria]

Sorry a complete f*** up of my text, which should start 'don't see the relevance of your question as to whether ...'

[vetuste_ennemi]

"Once the border between Christendom and Islam was at Poitiers, I think that we may return to a similar situation, only worse because of the wide spread of terrorists.".

"We" won that one, Jourdain, didn't we? Rather more recently "we" won at Lepanto and more recently still at Vienna.

The difference between those cases and now is that Europe then had leaders who believed in defending their countries and their civilisation. Europe's leader today, Orban apart - and we all know how he is viewed by the great and the good, do not believe in these goals.

[vetuste_ennemi]

"...complacency among western Govts regarding the threat".

I don't think the threat is ISIS and what it is up to in the Middle East; the threat as I see it is the ideology which can produce an ISIS.