News1 min ago
Drink Driving At Christmas.
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It appears that our culture of accepting arrest for drink-driving as an occupational hazard is not disappearing as quickly as we might hope.
My views on drink driving are very simple - zero tolerance, lifetime ban.
Any thoughts?
It appears that our culture of accepting arrest for drink-driving as an occupational hazard is not disappearing as quickly as we might hope.
My views on drink driving are very simple - zero tolerance, lifetime ban.
Any thoughts?
Answers
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andy-hughes
/// As a tee-totaller, I find the behaviour of drunken people to be rather infantile and boorish, but since I don't mix with any, it's not a problem. ///
What a sad person you must be, I bet you don't get invited along to many parties?
A person's choice to be tee-total is entirely up to them, but when they condemn others for drinking and choosing to call them rather infantile and boorish, and that they are not prepared to mix with them, then that person possess a very serious anti-social problem.
I know many who don't drink, but they mix in with the rest of the crowd, while sipping their soft drink, and they not only enjoy themselves but take a delight in seeing others enjoying themselves, even if some are slightly the worse for wear.
/// As a tee-totaller, I find the behaviour of drunken people to be rather infantile and boorish, but since I don't mix with any, it's not a problem. ///
What a sad person you must be, I bet you don't get invited along to many parties?
A person's choice to be tee-total is entirely up to them, but when they condemn others for drinking and choosing to call them rather infantile and boorish, and that they are not prepared to mix with them, then that person possess a very serious anti-social problem.
I know many who don't drink, but they mix in with the rest of the crowd, while sipping their soft drink, and they not only enjoy themselves but take a delight in seeing others enjoying themselves, even if some are slightly the worse for wear.
Cherish your green and pleasant land, wee Nicola's statspolitzei and the ex justice minister Kenny MacLacklustre have cut the limit to 50mg/100ml so just be wary on your trip north to the Gretna Outlet Centre after an agreeable lunch.
Works out at about 3/4 of a pint to get Jock Average up to the limit apparently.
Not sure what the hot pursuit rules are if you make a run for the border.
Works out at about 3/4 of a pint to get Jock Average up to the limit apparently.
Not sure what the hot pursuit rules are if you make a run for the border.
The way the law stands at present there are virtually no exceptions to a minimum 12 month ban for anybody over the legal limit. There is the “leeway” insofar as the current limit allows some alcohol to be in the blood/breath/urine. This allows not only for the “mouthwash and medicines” scenario but also a drink or two. It could be argued that the current limit is too high and it is indeed higher in England & Wales than in most other countries. Magistrates have no discretion but to impose a minimum 12 month ban unless the driver argue “special reasons” not to disqualify. These have nothing to do with “I need a car for work” or “I have to take granny to the hospital and church”. The reasons must be associated to the offence itself. They are very limited (usually to such things as “spiked” drinks) and are rarely successful.
“Again that infers that there is some sort of sliding scale for not being caught previously.”
Many offences are sentenced according to their degree of seriousness, Andy. For example, all theft is illegal but lifting a £10 bottle of vodka from a shelf in Sainsburys is viewed (and sentenced) somewhat more leniently than stealing a lorry load of vodka from the Watford Gap service station. Similarly there is a difference in drink driving immediately upon leaving the pub after downing ten pints and driving the next day when the driver believed the alcohol had cleared his system. Furthermore a defendant’s previous good character (or lack of similar offences) goes towards a reduction in sentence (as it does with any offence).
A zero alcohol limit has nothing to do with the “rights” of people to drive and/or to drink. It is simply a matter of practicalities and enforcement. Most humans’ digestive systems produce small amounts of alcohol even when no alcohol at all has been taken. So there is no intention to commit an offence and a prosecution would fail. Furthermore, a zero limit would be practically unenforceable.
A lifetime ban would not fit the “proportionality” test which all sentences must pass to be valid. Virtually no offences attract a sentence which effects the offender for the rest of his life save perhaps those which attract “Life” imprisonment. Drivers are rarely banned for more than five years for any driving offence (including the most serious – causing death by dangerous driving). Lifetime bans are reserved for those who clearly will not desist from offending. They are not imposed for a driver who commits a single offence.
I could discuss sentencing practices all day but I think that might be enough to be going on with. My own view is that the current law (and sentencing) is about right but I would be on the side of the argument to reduce the legal limit to about half of its current level.
“Again that infers that there is some sort of sliding scale for not being caught previously.”
Many offences are sentenced according to their degree of seriousness, Andy. For example, all theft is illegal but lifting a £10 bottle of vodka from a shelf in Sainsburys is viewed (and sentenced) somewhat more leniently than stealing a lorry load of vodka from the Watford Gap service station. Similarly there is a difference in drink driving immediately upon leaving the pub after downing ten pints and driving the next day when the driver believed the alcohol had cleared his system. Furthermore a defendant’s previous good character (or lack of similar offences) goes towards a reduction in sentence (as it does with any offence).
A zero alcohol limit has nothing to do with the “rights” of people to drive and/or to drink. It is simply a matter of practicalities and enforcement. Most humans’ digestive systems produce small amounts of alcohol even when no alcohol at all has been taken. So there is no intention to commit an offence and a prosecution would fail. Furthermore, a zero limit would be practically unenforceable.
A lifetime ban would not fit the “proportionality” test which all sentences must pass to be valid. Virtually no offences attract a sentence which effects the offender for the rest of his life save perhaps those which attract “Life” imprisonment. Drivers are rarely banned for more than five years for any driving offence (including the most serious – causing death by dangerous driving). Lifetime bans are reserved for those who clearly will not desist from offending. They are not imposed for a driver who commits a single offence.
I could discuss sentencing practices all day but I think that might be enough to be going on with. My own view is that the current law (and sentencing) is about right but I would be on the side of the argument to reduce the legal limit to about half of its current level.
The problem with a long or lifetime ban is that the offender would probably be inclined to have a lack of respect for the law in the first place. Giving them a life time ban would probably just mean they drove without tax and insurance as well as over the limit. Given the leniency of the courts, jail would probably be a number of offences away
AOG - ///// As a tee-totaller, I find the behaviour of drunken people to be rather infantile and boorish, but since I don't mix with any, it's not a problem. ///
What a sad person you must be, I bet you don't get invited along to many parties? //
Not for the first time, your assumptions about be are well wide of the mark.
I do get invited to parties, mainly because I am the exact opposite of the 'sad person' that you paint me as being.
I am fully aware that a lot of people like to drink to 'loosen up', and be more relaxed, uninhibited, even more outrageous. I am very fortunate in that I don't need the stimulous of alcohol, I am perfectly able to go along with the atmosphere, and join in anything that my tipsy friends might do, knowing that they would not do it, if they were sober like me. So, I can be as party-happy as anyone, and often am, I am very much a happy person.
// A person's choice to be tee-total is entirely up to them, but when they condemn others for drinking and choosing to call them rather infantile and boorish, and that they are not prepared to mix with them, then that person possess a very serious anti-social problem. //
Once again, you read into my post various things that I have not said.
It is my choice to be tee-total, but I do not condemn anyone for drinking, because that is their choice, and I am all for choice, as my history on this site demonstrates on a daily basis.
I did not say that people who drink are infantile and boorish, I said that I find their behaviour to be infantile and boorish - which is not the same thing. I should qualify that by saying that it is my experience of rowdy strangers, often in pubs, but I don't go in pubs, so it's not an issue.
I also did not say that I am not prepared to mix with people who drink - I do, very frequently as it happens. A lot of my social activity enjoys bands and groups, and most of the audience, and the bands, are refreshed to varying degrees - no problem for me, which is why I did not say as you have said I did.
// I know many who don't drink, but they mix in with the rest of the crowd, while sipping their soft drink, and they not only enjoy themselves but take a delight in seeing others enjoying themselves, even if some are slightly the worse for wear. //
I mix in with the crowd, sipping my soft drink, and as advised, I will go along with anything the crowd are doing - within reason - up to and including dancing on the bar with one gang of friends on a particularly riotous night out.
So, to sum up, I am not the miserable snobby superior killjoy that you appear to have discerned from my post AOG - but I am always happy to correct your incorrect impressions.
What a sad person you must be, I bet you don't get invited along to many parties? //
Not for the first time, your assumptions about be are well wide of the mark.
I do get invited to parties, mainly because I am the exact opposite of the 'sad person' that you paint me as being.
I am fully aware that a lot of people like to drink to 'loosen up', and be more relaxed, uninhibited, even more outrageous. I am very fortunate in that I don't need the stimulous of alcohol, I am perfectly able to go along with the atmosphere, and join in anything that my tipsy friends might do, knowing that they would not do it, if they were sober like me. So, I can be as party-happy as anyone, and often am, I am very much a happy person.
// A person's choice to be tee-total is entirely up to them, but when they condemn others for drinking and choosing to call them rather infantile and boorish, and that they are not prepared to mix with them, then that person possess a very serious anti-social problem. //
Once again, you read into my post various things that I have not said.
It is my choice to be tee-total, but I do not condemn anyone for drinking, because that is their choice, and I am all for choice, as my history on this site demonstrates on a daily basis.
I did not say that people who drink are infantile and boorish, I said that I find their behaviour to be infantile and boorish - which is not the same thing. I should qualify that by saying that it is my experience of rowdy strangers, often in pubs, but I don't go in pubs, so it's not an issue.
I also did not say that I am not prepared to mix with people who drink - I do, very frequently as it happens. A lot of my social activity enjoys bands and groups, and most of the audience, and the bands, are refreshed to varying degrees - no problem for me, which is why I did not say as you have said I did.
// I know many who don't drink, but they mix in with the rest of the crowd, while sipping their soft drink, and they not only enjoy themselves but take a delight in seeing others enjoying themselves, even if some are slightly the worse for wear. //
I mix in with the crowd, sipping my soft drink, and as advised, I will go along with anything the crowd are doing - within reason - up to and including dancing on the bar with one gang of friends on a particularly riotous night out.
So, to sum up, I am not the miserable snobby superior killjoy that you appear to have discerned from my post AOG - but I am always happy to correct your incorrect impressions.
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AOG, I'm shocked! You could lead the youth of today astray! No driving after a couple of glasses of wine with dinner the previous night is, in my opinion, taking it to extremes, but there's nothing smart about drink driving. It's certainly nothing to be proud of or to brag about. You would need to be a complete idiot to think it is.
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My son lost a school friend who was knocked down by a drunk driver and also he had a friend who was convicted of drunk driving.
I have seen how this has affected him and he was totally disgusted with his friend and on his release from prison did not speak to him again. I cannot remember if he killed somebody but he went to prison for 6 months.
Drink drivers are the scourge of the earth!
I have seen how this has affected him and he was totally disgusted with his friend and on his release from prison did not speak to him again. I cannot remember if he killed somebody but he went to prison for 6 months.
Drink drivers are the scourge of the earth!
