Road rules1 min ago
Douglas Carswell: Ukip Needs A 'fresh Face' As Leader
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Ukip have had a bad time of things in the last few months, reeling from an electoral disappointment that was not at all deserved. But we've seen just recently in France -- and, for that matter, the US -- that right-wing politics is still enjoying something of a rebirth. If Ukip can pick themselves up -- yes, probably needing a fresh face at the lead to do so -- then they can still be part of the story.
Particularly with Labour enjoying plenty of seats but with a pathetic shambles of leadership, the Conservatives' main danger is probably from the right. It will be interesting to see if Ukip can tap into that effectively in the next couple of years.
Particularly with Labour enjoying plenty of seats but with a pathetic shambles of leadership, the Conservatives' main danger is probably from the right. It will be interesting to see if Ukip can tap into that effectively in the next couple of years.
Yes, but then you are forgetting the 4 million votes received, massive local council gains recently (up to 500 seats just about from a standing start five years ago), 22 MEPs -- and the fact that the electoral system shafted the crap out of them. 1 Mp only, yes -- but that's about 30-40 fewer than they deserved.
Ignoring or mocking them is just silly -- not least in light of the huge problems Labour faces, even if it is the second-largest party.
Finally, you seem to miss the importance of diversity in politics. Ukip represents a position shared by many.
Ignoring or mocking them is just silly -- not least in light of the huge problems Labour faces, even if it is the second-largest party.
Finally, you seem to miss the importance of diversity in politics. Ukip represents a position shared by many.
"1 Mp only, yes -- but that's about 30-40 fewer than they deserved."
Hmm, not sure I agree. Under the system we have they got what they deserved :-)
The SNP showed that it is possible to prosper from small beginnings under FPTP, admittedly in a slightly different situation, as they are pretty much one of the two main parties in Scotland, whereas UKIP are very much a distant 3rd/4th. The problem they have is that while they did, to their credit, achieve a fair number of votes over quite a large proportion of the country, it simply was not enough to justify them having many seats. The reason for that was that the things they most stand for did not appeal sufficiently strongly to enough people. Despite what people here think, Europe is not, and never will be, a big enough issue with the entirety of the electorate. Their other big push is that they are somehow not like other parties or politicians (true enough perhaps!) but again a political party that promotes itself thus is ultimately onto a loser!
They do have some very able people. As I've said before, I like Nigel Farage. He does speak well, and he makes his case intelligently. I just don't happen to agree with him or his vision of Britain, to put it mildly. And there are others, but they seem to be thin on the ground and not exactly singing from the same hymn sheet a lot of the time. And the referendum will probably do for them. So Cameron at least will have achieved something ...
Hmm, not sure I agree. Under the system we have they got what they deserved :-)
The SNP showed that it is possible to prosper from small beginnings under FPTP, admittedly in a slightly different situation, as they are pretty much one of the two main parties in Scotland, whereas UKIP are very much a distant 3rd/4th. The problem they have is that while they did, to their credit, achieve a fair number of votes over quite a large proportion of the country, it simply was not enough to justify them having many seats. The reason for that was that the things they most stand for did not appeal sufficiently strongly to enough people. Despite what people here think, Europe is not, and never will be, a big enough issue with the entirety of the electorate. Their other big push is that they are somehow not like other parties or politicians (true enough perhaps!) but again a political party that promotes itself thus is ultimately onto a loser!
They do have some very able people. As I've said before, I like Nigel Farage. He does speak well, and he makes his case intelligently. I just don't happen to agree with him or his vision of Britain, to put it mildly. And there are others, but they seem to be thin on the ground and not exactly singing from the same hymn sheet a lot of the time. And the referendum will probably do for them. So Cameron at least will have achieved something ...
"The reason for that was that the things they most stand for did not appeal sufficiently strongly to enough people."
That line isn't quite accurate -- the problem was that Ukip didn't appeal to enough people concentrated into small, fairly arbitrary boundaries.
I'm no fan of Ukip and will almost certainly never vote for them, but it still remains a travesty of democracy that they won a single seat.
That line isn't quite accurate -- the problem was that Ukip didn't appeal to enough people concentrated into small, fairly arbitrary boundaries.
I'm no fan of Ukip and will almost certainly never vote for them, but it still remains a travesty of democracy that they won a single seat.
""The reason for that was that the things they most stand for did not appeal sufficiently strongly to enough people."
That line isn't quite accurate -- the problem was that Ukip didn't appeal to enough people concentrated into small, fairly arbitrary boundaries.
Well that was what I meant, by implication. But I happen to think that it's good to have boundaries. While I agree that our system has shortcomings, I'd hate to have a system with no constituencies or, horror of horrors, national party lists. You look at places that have that and I am not sure they are models of democracy necessarily.
And in fairness I think Nigel Farage has also gone on record as saying something similar, which still wishing naturally to see electoral reform,
That line isn't quite accurate -- the problem was that Ukip didn't appeal to enough people concentrated into small, fairly arbitrary boundaries.
Well that was what I meant, by implication. But I happen to think that it's good to have boundaries. While I agree that our system has shortcomings, I'd hate to have a system with no constituencies or, horror of horrors, national party lists. You look at places that have that and I am not sure they are models of democracy necessarily.
And in fairness I think Nigel Farage has also gone on record as saying something similar, which still wishing naturally to see electoral reform,
Jim...not at all....you misunderstand me....that was the quoted remark from
Tom Watson ::::::
http://
Tom Watson ::::::
http://
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