ChatterBank1 min ago
Times Tables 'must Be Memorised By Age 11'
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I was 11 in 1964 and before I went to the Secondary School, I already
knew my tables. What has happened in the last 50 years that only now is the Education Secretary realising that some kids don't ?
If these kids have been in school since the age of 5, why do they not know their tables ?
I was 11 in 1964 and before I went to the Secondary School, I already
knew my tables. What has happened in the last 50 years that only now is the Education Secretary realising that some kids don't ?
If these kids have been in school since the age of 5, why do they not know their tables ?
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It is little wonder the kids of today seem behind in certain ways, just look at the various methods that can be taught for carrying out simple mathematical calculations.
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"The times tables are the basis of all maths..."
That's stretching things just a little bit -- it's important of course that people have basic numeracy skills, of which multiplication tables are a part, but I think the "basis" of all maths" is a little bit of a stretch. The order of operations is quite an important skill, that many also seem to have trouble mastering.
The headline seems to me to be very misleading, frustratingly so. The main point I'd want to make here is that this target comes up periodically every couple of years ago, specifically the "times tables" one, and every time it does people seem to think that learning multiplication tables basically stopped at some indeterminate point in the past. I can tell that that when I was at primary school in the mid 1990s/ early 2000s they were still taught, so it wasn't an early Labour initiative to remove them (although I do vaguely remember something about a National Curriculum being introduced -- and also vaguely remember basically not noticing the slightest difference from when it wasn't). I suppose that last remark brings me to my second point, which is that government initiatives in teaching tend to affect the students rather a lot less than people seem to hope. It's about the quality of teachers, and the teachers end up being the ones to notice yet another change in targets far more readily than the students do.
Anyway, multiplication tables are important, but then they always have been -- some children are struggling to learn them, perhaps, and will need more attention, but I'm bored of seeing this particular headline.
That's stretching things just a little bit -- it's important of course that people have basic numeracy skills, of which multiplication tables are a part, but I think the "basis" of all maths" is a little bit of a stretch. The order of operations is quite an important skill, that many also seem to have trouble mastering.
The headline seems to me to be very misleading, frustratingly so. The main point I'd want to make here is that this target comes up periodically every couple of years ago, specifically the "times tables" one, and every time it does people seem to think that learning multiplication tables basically stopped at some indeterminate point in the past. I can tell that that when I was at primary school in the mid 1990s/ early 2000s they were still taught, so it wasn't an early Labour initiative to remove them (although I do vaguely remember something about a National Curriculum being introduced -- and also vaguely remember basically not noticing the slightest difference from when it wasn't). I suppose that last remark brings me to my second point, which is that government initiatives in teaching tend to affect the students rather a lot less than people seem to hope. It's about the quality of teachers, and the teachers end up being the ones to notice yet another change in targets far more readily than the students do.
Anyway, multiplication tables are important, but then they always have been -- some children are struggling to learn them, perhaps, and will need more attention, but I'm bored of seeing this particular headline.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by that sheet, AOG. Seems that all but one of those methods were around in my childhood, and I'm fairly sure my parents would recognise long division from their own in the 60s (ditto the addition and multiplication techniques shown there). So those are the basic methods for those operations that have been around quite a while, no? In which case, that you don't seem to recognise them is rather worrying.
How else would you add/ subtract/ multiply/ divide numbers on paper, AOG?
How else would you add/ subtract/ multiply/ divide numbers on paper, AOG?
As a person who learned tables, enjoyed learning them and was good at them, can I suggest that nowadays, with nearly everybody having a calculator to hand, they are useful but not necessary.
In times long ago we had to navigate without compasses and chronometers, we had to work out which time of year it was without calendars, what time of day it was without watches etc. As these tools became commonplace and cheap we ceased to pass on skills to our children. Does not times tables come into this category?
In times long ago we had to navigate without compasses and chronometers, we had to work out which time of year it was without calendars, what time of day it was without watches etc. As these tools became commonplace and cheap we ceased to pass on skills to our children. Does not times tables come into this category?
What a depressing thought that 'on screen' tests are allegedly going to be used so that some IT company can make a quick killing and some Whitehall nonentity can yell 'gotcha' at some 'under performers'
It strikes me as another dubious headline grabber
Our son would appear to be at least as advanced in maths as I was at his age (luckily for him!)
We seem to have more tests and exams than ever but it seems that the qualifications are ever more meaningless. I used to work with someone who had a 'qualification' in the Java programming language and yet she was utterly useless
Then I helped a friend with his 'IT' course at the local college and I was appalled at how rubbish it was.
So by all means we should encourage the learning of 'tables' as they are useful but the tests will achieve nothing I would guess other than wasting a lot of time
It strikes me as another dubious headline grabber
Our son would appear to be at least as advanced in maths as I was at his age (luckily for him!)
We seem to have more tests and exams than ever but it seems that the qualifications are ever more meaningless. I used to work with someone who had a 'qualification' in the Java programming language and yet she was utterly useless
Then I helped a friend with his 'IT' course at the local college and I was appalled at how rubbish it was.
So by all means we should encourage the learning of 'tables' as they are useful but the tests will achieve nothing I would guess other than wasting a lot of time
aog, I can't see much wrong with those methods. There does seem to be a tendency today to complicate al sorts of learning including simple arithmetic but I don't see evidence of that there. It seems straightforward enough (except the example with the arrows. What's that all about? I don't remember using arrows in simple calculations).
I think times tables are the basis of arithmetic and the best way to learn them is by rote. Once learnt, rarely forgotten, and that can only be beneficial. There need be no argument about that. A child is certainly not worse off with them.
I think times tables are the basis of arithmetic and the best way to learn them is by rote. Once learnt, rarely forgotten, and that can only be beneficial. There need be no argument about that. A child is certainly not worse off with them.
"Do children still learn [times tables] by rote?"
I don't *know* the answer to the question but in general rote learning is becoming less important these days, the emphasis switching to skills-based learning. That's not too unreasonable, as rote learning without the basic understanding is just as meaningless as skills learning without the basic knowledge. In a day when the world's entire collected knowledge is (almost) available at the touch of the button it's a very important skill to be able to make sense of all that information, ie research skills become very important, and knowing the facts for yourself isn't such a major issue if you know where to look to find the answer.
The emphasis on times tables seems to me to overlook the changes in the way the world has worked -- I'm not saying it's a bad idea to ensure that kids know times tables by heart, but I don't think it's quite so important a metric to measure their ability as it was even, say, 20 years ago when I was a child.
I don't *know* the answer to the question but in general rote learning is becoming less important these days, the emphasis switching to skills-based learning. That's not too unreasonable, as rote learning without the basic understanding is just as meaningless as skills learning without the basic knowledge. In a day when the world's entire collected knowledge is (almost) available at the touch of the button it's a very important skill to be able to make sense of all that information, ie research skills become very important, and knowing the facts for yourself isn't such a major issue if you know where to look to find the answer.
The emphasis on times tables seems to me to overlook the changes in the way the world has worked -- I'm not saying it's a bad idea to ensure that kids know times tables by heart, but I don't think it's quite so important a metric to measure their ability as it was even, say, 20 years ago when I was a child.
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