Why Is This Even A Subject For Discussion?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-35435805

[bazwillrun]

The leftie fascists again....

[Zacs-Master]

I think you'll find it's an ethnicity thing baz, rather than out rightly political.

[Mamyalynne]

I presume because you wish to discuss it.

For my own part , airbrushing history does not change what has gone on in the past, pieces like this simply serve as reminders.

[Zacs-Master]

It's not airbrushing history tho is it? It's actually referring to history directly and (misguidedly) wanting a reminder of it to be taken down. One could argue that the empty space prompted historical reference.

[Mamyalynne]

Well, we could indeed have lots of empty spaces in place of statues and the like of things that remind us of the past - would they speak louder?

[retrocop]

//A scholarship programme in his name has so far been awarded to more than 8,000 overseas students//
There's gratitude for you. Just a pity they had to take a picture of a female black protester or was it to prove a point ??

[Zacs-Master]

they would speak more of giving in to minority groups than the history which they represent. A vary rare occurrence of an organisation not giving in to the minority so most welcome in my book.

[Baldric]

How long, I wonder, before it mysteriously falls off it's perch one dark night?

[New Judge]

I suppose because the demands of those who want to see Cecil Zimbab’s statue removed are so outrageous and hypocritical as to be laughable.

If the students who object to the statue’s presence are that principled all they need do is attend another university (preferably in another country). It is a fact that many large benefactors to this nation’s heritage made their money from activities which today would not be acceptable. That cannot be “airbrushed” by removing Rhodes’ statue. But make their money they did and without them doing so it is doubtful that places such as Oriel College would exist today.

[Mamyalynne]

I think I may have made my point poorly, I don't wish this statue to be removed - I don't see all such pieces as glorifying the person or event, I can make my own mind up on that one.

[Zacs-Master]

sheesh mamya, you're not allowed to make up your own mind these days you know! You have to let minority groups or a newspaper do that for you.

[andy-hughes]

I think that removing the statue would defeat the object of the protest.

If students see the statue, they may investigate the history behind the subject, and make an informed and educated decision about history - which cannot be seen as a bad thing.

I doubt if an empty space would create such a spirit of enquiry.

History is what it is - good and bad. Removing symbols of events because they jar with modern thinking is a fascist attitude - utterly incompatible with a senior seat of learning in a democratic country.

[Mamyalynne]

Always been a rebel.

[anotheoldgit]

Topical:

/// "To save the forty million inhabitants of the United Kingdom from a bloody civil war, our colonial statesmen must acquire new lands for settling the surplus population of this country. ///

Cecil Rhodes.

[mushroom25]

//Topical...
Cecil Rhodes...//

think you'll find Hitler said pretty much the same just before he started throwing things at the poles and the russians.

[douglas9401]

Leave it where it is, get 'Rhodes Must Fall' to fund future students and spend the scholarship funds on beer.

[tamborine]

White supremacy is education, as are universities.

[Peter Pedant]

you mean you think they should take it down without discussing it ?

People take down statues for all sorts of reasons
( cue films of statues of Lenin and Stalin being toppled)

sometimes the crowds spontaneously rise up and tear them down
( cue article about the London mob tearing down statues stuck up the side of BMA house then Rhodesia House and no Zim House )
" The problems began in 1908 when his first major project, to decorate the front of the new British Medical Association Building on the Strand, provoked dismay among conservative critics. Newspapers overreacted, conducting a campaign against his design, and the resulting scandal damaged his reputation, discouraged potential employers, and threatened the very works themselves. It disrupted Epstein’s life, forcing the persona of provocateur on a man who preferred, as he claimed, to work in peace. "

and sometimes statues are covered and not removed
( cue pictures of Italian statues such as Neptune who's got a big hu-hu wearing a pair of jeans to spare the President of iran's blushes whose hu-hu is clearly erm smaller )
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/26/europe/italy-covered-naked-statues-rouhani/index.html

and... what was the question ?
oh why are we discussing statues

considering it has never ever been considered before
cue the arteest who covered all the nudes in the sistine chapel
so as not to distract the Pope when celebrating Mass
" The Sistine Chapel covered by the artist Daniele da Volterra, whom history remembers by the derogatory nickname "Il Braghettone" ("the breeches-painter"). ..."

I mean yeah ..... why ARE we even discussing this

cant we get back to the staple of 'are we to be murdered in our beds by sundry moustachioed drugged assassins with kalshnikovs in their hands ? '
AOG where are you when you are needed ?

[Mamyalynne]

AOG is a little further down the page - 3 threads to digest from today Peter, don't despair.

[youngmafbog]

Usual right-on stuff TTT.