Apple Refuses To Create Iphone Back Door

[Ellipsis]

Background news story here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35594245

Apple statement here:

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Is Apple correct to defy their Government's wishes in this way? Or should they do everything possible to help investigate this act of terrorism?

[Ellipsis]

Interesting sp - I have the same iPhone, but have to enter the PIN a lot more often than that! I frequently get "Your passcode is required to enable Touch ID" and assumed everybody did, but perhaps it's just me ...

[Gromit]

Dogsbody2

You clearly know a lot less than you think.

The contacts on the phone are not encryted and Apple have accessed many phones when requested to do so by crime investigators. They have offered to help to unlock this phone. Anyone using their phone for crime will delete their messages and wipe their phone regularly, so it is unlikely there will be anything of any use on the phone anyway. I repeat, this move is not about this phone, it is about them wanting access to everybodies phone in the future.

A very stupid suggestion that Apple are doing this so as not to lose sales to ISIS members. At most there are about 25,000 ISIS terrorist (the US claims to have killed 10,000 of those). iPhone sales are 900 MILLION. So a few thousand is not going to dent Apples bottom line at all.

[Peter Pedant]

// I don't consider it "that big a deal" that the Government wants to access a murdering terrorist's phone data!//

it seems clear that they want unfettered access to everyone's data - xc their own of course

[Peter Pedant]

// Anyone using their phone for crime will delete their messages and wipe their phone regularly, so it is unlikely there will be anything of any use on the phone anyway.//

I am not sure about this blanket assumption to be honest
as slick as it may sound

a fella was stabbed at a party around the corner from me over a phone ( presumably data on the phone and drugz)

and another neighbour was arrested and indicted for droogz - I recollect the police were very interested in his phones and sims of which there were a lot

and anyway ( I know a zillion AB readers wont be able to follow this ) doesn't the FBI interest in the san bernardino phone refute Gromits idea that these phones don't have anything of interest and so this instant one wont either ?

[Oldred]

Good job the people working at Bletchley Park didn't have all this trouble.

[Gromit]

Peter,
These killers would know they would be caught or killed, so they would be unlikely to leave any material behind that incriminated others. Taking an iPhone back to factory settings completely wipes it and takes 5 minutes. I am sure wiping the phones you leave behind is No.1 in the terrorists handbook. The FBI do not know if iMessage was used by the killers. As Apple have cooperated with the US security services in the past, any would be terrorist would be unlikely to use Apples services anyway, and more likely to use the far more popular whatsapp messaging service, which does not use Apple's cloud.

The FBI do not know if there is anything on the phone worth looking at. The probability is that there is nothing at all on that phone. All this fuss is to force tech companies to make phones that are snooper friendly in the future.

[Ellipsis]

> I repeat, this move is not about this phone, it is about them wanting access to everybodies phone in the future.

So the logic is ...

* Terrorists and criminals won't leave any data on iPhones
* The FBI wants access to iPhones
* Therefore the FBI wants access, not for terrorist and criminal data because it isn't there, but to everybody else's data (if they have possession of everybody's iPhones, that is)

Sorry, I don't buy it.

[EDDIE51]

^^ You may not 'buy it' but I am certain that is the truth !

[ChillDoubt]

From the Apple letter:

The implications of the government’s demands are chilling.
--------------------------------
Not as chilling as the screams of the innocent when caught up in acts of terror.
The Apple argument is poor. Why can't they make the new ios as asked and then have the software put under lock and key? After all, it's only Apple techies who will make it so what's the problem?

[EDDIE51]

Another point was mentioned on the TV news. That was once written this program could be used remotely to access any i phone's data.
So it is a sort of 'super hacking tool'
No wonder the FBI want it. Daft thing is the Chinese have almost certainly already done it.

[Peter Pedant]

// Good job the people working at Bletchley Park didn't have all this trouble.//

erm they did - shark black out erm springs to mind

but they didnt write to the hitler govt " o I say your codes are te'bble hard to read - can you make them easier please or else we will get very angry...."

I agree they did truly remarkable things

[Peter Pedant]

// Daft thing is the Chinese have almost certainly already done it.//

then they can do it

it is obvious they havent done it otherwise there would not be this public arm-twisting - there are some whopping logical inconsistencies in this thread ....

[EDDIE51]

Chilldoubt If you believe that it would stay 'under lock and key' you are probably one of those who believe the Moon landings were fake as well .
Even apple say it could never be kept secret once it exists.
Within days every newspaper reporter in the country would have it!

[EDDIE51]

Don't let Trump get to hear of this , he will want to ban i phones !

[Peter Pedant]

eddie - stop abusing chilldo
he is ex services and so has a view of govt of near or actual saints
which we certainly dont share .....


as for govt misusing powers - for him it is unthinkable and for us we expect it to happen tomorrow at the latest

[Oldred]

PP - my point was they didn't have to contend with those they were protecting objecting to the way they were doing it.

[Gromit]

Ellipsis,

I doubt this phone contains any worthwhile data because they knew they would be caught or die, so they would erase evidence (if indeed there was any to erase) before their mission. But that is just this phone.

If they had the phone before they carried out their attack, then it is likely there would be data that had not been erased. But it would also likely they would have captives instead of dead terrorists. A live terrorist could be persauded to give the pass number, or their finger could be used to unlock the phone. (The iPhone5c did not have Touch ID).

China, Russia, UK or anyone else does not have have the key to the backdoor of Apples OS because there isn't a bad door.

[Svejk]

It's all very complicated, to me anyway. No black or white, right or wrong, simple answers.
At the moment, I think I'd side with Apple. In recent years, I've lost the faith I used to have that our Governments have our interests uppermost at all times. Free speech & thought seemingly under attack from them being an example.

[Gromit]

The FBI have made it widely public with this case that 10 wrong pass entries will completely wipe an iPhone. While that wasn't a secret, it was surely a mistake to broadcast it to every criminal and terrorist. Any criminal or terrorist can clean their phone in seconds at first sight of the police, by tapping a few wrong numbers.
Single handedly, they have made future intelligence gathering less likely to yells any results - not very clever.

[youngmafbog]

Never mind, lets allow terrorists can communicate at will just so Grmoit can invite his mates to the pub without the FBI knowing!

Gromit, I think you have delusions of grandeur about your texts.

Personally I dont give a monkeys who reads my phone as I am not a kiddy fiddler, murderer or indeed any other sort of criminal.

Apple also have an over inflated opinion of themselves and usually do things like this so they can cahrge the owner a fortune to sort the machine out - I wouldn't touch an Apple product with a barge pole.