Who runs Britain

[Joe Public]

 I can only remember being able to vote for the the Houses of Parliament, not Brussels. Why does TB allow this. Why do WE allow this???

[delboy3]

Boring!

You vote for MPs, you vote for MEPs. No difference. In the 1975 national referendum, Britain voted to stay in the EEC.

Now over to you, bernardo...

[Joe Public]

1975? your argument is based on a vote taken 30 years ago?

Lame.

[Loosehead]

and in 1975(73?) we didn't agree to total subjugation into a European superstate, we voted for a Common Market. Ie trading agreements. We where sold down the river by Ted Heath and other Europhiles.

[Famous5]

You last had the chance to vote in a European Parliamentary Election in 2004.

[delboy3]

Still boring!

Not arguing, Joe Public, just stating a fact. How many other referendums have we had in the last 40 years? Anyway you get your chance every 4 years or so to vote for UKIP if that's what you want... oh look! they don't get many votes, do they? I wonder why?

Almost forgot about you, Loosehead. If you want a Common Market, you've got to have common rules. Those rules are decided upon by democratically-elected government ministers (by the way, when was the last time you voted for a cabinet minister?) and driven by the demands of industry. If the legislation is unworkable it  gets thrown out by the democratically-elected members of the European Parliament. Doesn't sound like subjugation to me.

Member states are fully free of withdrawing from the EU at any stage. How many have done so? None. And how many more countries are queueing up to join? Four at the last count. What does that tell you?

Sheesh; pass me a paddle someone.

[Loosehead]

Delboy: A common market means agreements between states and if you want to clal them rules then fine but it does not imply control. Anyway I'm not saying I "want" a common market what I'm saying is we should honour the only referendum we've had on what was then the EEC, we didn't ratify the EC or indeed the EU and probably we won't get asked to approve any further integration in case we give the "wrong" answer.

The European parliament has about as much power as the Welsh assembly, the real power goes to the unelected unaccountable, corrupt commission. See if you can find an accountant in Europe that'll validate their accounts!

 

"member states are fully free of writhdrawing from the EU.... how many have done so? How many are queing up to join?"

That's because only 2 countries pay for the whole show, dam sure I'd want to join a club where they pay me to join and they always buy my drinks, I'd be in like a shot!

[bernardo]

Ha ha ha!  Delboy3 has fallen into the obvious trap straight away.  Yes we do vote for MEPs, but that is irrelevant.  The real power in the EU lies with the Commission and the Council of Ministers, whom we do not elect.

[delboy3]

What trap, bernardo?  It is not irrelevant to vote for MEPs; they are the ones who have the power to veto any proposals drafted up by the Commission. The Council of Ministers is a flexible body made up of government ministers (who, fair enough, we don't get a chance to directly choose, as they are selected by governments we have democratically elected and entrusted to carry out such decisions). The Commission itself is also chosen by a transparent process through which our government and MEPs can say 'yes' or 'no' to. And they can be sacked, if it comes to that, which is what happened to the former Commissioner who corrupted her position beyond even French standards.

Further integration (political & economic) is needed to make the EU function more effectively and have a stronger voice on the world stage. Each step towards integration (EC, EU) has been ratified by treaties signed by democratically elected government ministers (if not the PM her/himself). These treaties are not some sinister secret diktats hidden under lock and key, they are freely available for anyone to read in their local library or on t'internet.

The budget has not been signed off for a number of years due to fraud and mismanagement by organisations outside the EC entrusted to distribute and control expenditure. If I gave you money to spend and you wasted it or cheated me, would that be my fault?

Oh, and Loosehead, there are at least eight member states paying in more to the EU budget than they get back, not just two, the idea being that the wealthiest nations put more into the pot to help the poorer countries (eg Greece & Portugal). I think it's called generosity or something.

[eupraxia]

Rupert Murdoch runs the country. he who owns the press rules the world.