If You Want To Know Why Certain Benefits Are Being Cut, Could This Be Why?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3485126/How-Britain-s-handouts-Polish-newspaper-produces-20-page-guide-making-UK-s-generous-benefits-system.html

Amazing, forget the language translator books, forget the tourist guides, it seems the Poles have got their priorities well in order.

[Gromit]

Benefits information is available in many languages including Polish.

A polish newspaper does their own guide. Why is that any different than Help the Aged producing a guide for its readers?

[Gromit]

They can only claim benefits they are entitled to. Do you think they should not be told.

Do you think old people should not be told what benefits they are entitled to because if they all know, there will be less to go round?

[CrapAtCryptics]

its a shame they cant make entitlements as clear to their own residents. I`m sure we`ve all read forms and then thought what the bleep was that all about.

[jim360]

Perhaps, Gromit, although I suppose "How to claim money that you are legitimately and legally entitled to because for complicated reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you the system is currently set up in this way" is perhaps slightly less effective at making UK readers angry.

[anotheoldgit]

The difference being Gromit that the British OAP has mostly paid into the fund all their working life.

They are not free loaders coming into our country and taking advantage of our once marvellous welfare schemes, and of course that also includes our now diminishing NHS.

But come June we may put an end to this problem.

[New Judge]

"Why is that any different than Help the Aged producing a guide for its readers?"

Because I doubt that Help the Aged produces any information extolling the virtues of the Polish benefits system.

[TheChair]

"But come June we may put an end to this problem."
I shouldn't start celebrating yet. If Britain votes out, you can look forward to the possibility of around a million and a half UK pensioners who currently have the right to live in Europe, returning to the UK and putting pressure on primary and secondary health care, housing, and social services (things that they also have paid into all their working lives, and are fully entitled to claim).

[jim360]

I'm not saying you don't have a reason to be angry about the problem, I'm just saying that really it's the wrong response to target the people who use this system in the way they do. If you think it's badly designed for allowing such a use, fair enough -- and yes, maybe a "no" vote in June will change that. Not really sure it's fair to describe the people as "freeloaders" though.

Where does one draw the line on that, anyway? Young people, just out of school or university, may not have themselves paid anything into the system either, but will still find it important to have the welfare system prop them up for a few months while they finally search for a job. I believe the system does take their non-contribution into account at some level, but still the non-contributory principle might describe these as "freeloaders" too in the same way, and I'm not sure that's fair either.

In short, complain about the system and not the people.

[TheChair]

Here's a guide for Brits wishing to claim benefits in Germany.

[Gromit]

AOG

Freeloaders?

They are coming here to work and pay tax.

New Judge. There are plenty of guides for expats living in Spain about benefits.

[New Judge]

"...you can look forward to the possibility of around a million and a half UK pensioners who currently have the right to live in Europe, returning to the UK"

Not so. The 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties states that individuals who have acquired rights under Treaties that are subsequently discontinued or amended shall retain those rights. So the ex-pats living in Spain will not be thrown out and neither will the Poles living in the UK.

[Gromit]

AOG

Do you have any evidence that benefits are being cut because of a greater take up of those benefits?

[jim360]

Yes, you're right of course -- I suppose the Swiss, German, Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, French, Belgian, Dutch and Danish mathematicians and scientists working in my building contribute nothing at all to the UK.

[New Judge]

“They are coming here to work and pay tax.”

It is quite true that many come here to work and that some of them pay tax. However the earnings of many of them are so low that they have their pay topped up – often by 100% or more – by the very benefits this article describes:

"In addition to sickness benefit or unemployment benefit the British and [those from] other European countries can, for example, expect subsidies if their salary in not enough to cover basic needs (allowance for low income)"

Much of this cash is sent back home making their presence here of little or no benefit to the UK whatsoever.

See if you can find me any leaflets in English similarly lauding the Polish benefits system, Gromit.

[ummmm]

Jim...don't forget the carpenters, plumbers, plasterers...etc. They earn a decent wage...

[jackthehat]

Have you ever thought that the majority of Housing Benefit actually gets paid forwards to (British) Landlords and therefore doesn't leave these shores?

Once there is an entitlement to any sort of benefits it remains and hoping to keep it a secret to reduce 'take-up' is not practical.

[New Judge]

And of course we're not just talking about those in your building, jim (whom the UK would probably have invited or allowed to settle here given the option).

We're also talking about the considerably higher number of cabbage and tomato pickers living six to a room in Lincolnshire and Norfolk (whom the UK would probably not have invited here to have to see the taxpayer double their wages, given the option).

[jim360]

Granted, NJ, but there's a difference between arguing whether (benefits - costs) is greater or less than zero, and not recognising or acknowledging the existence of benefits at all, as fender appeared to be suggesting.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// AOG

Do you have any evidence that benefits are being cut because of a greater take up of those benefits? ///

No, I just use a certain amount of common sense to realise that the 'pot' is only a certain size and one cannot expect more and more dipping their hands in the 'pot', before one has to step back and consider what measures can be taken to prevent the 'pot' empting altogether.

To do this one must reduce the outflow, but unlike Labour who would just keep topping the 'pot' up with money they have not got, the Tories have to decide to lesser the flow.