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Could This Be The Beginning Of The End?
At least on the "easy" routes.
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ummmm
/// I'm not sure which way I'd vote. My OH will vote for out. I wouldn't like to see Turkey join though. ///
Consider the reasons you would not like to see Turkey join the EU, and if your reasons are that they would have a detrimental effect on the UK, then join your OH and vote to get out of the EU.
/// I'm not sure which way I'd vote. My OH will vote for out. I wouldn't like to see Turkey join though. ///
Consider the reasons you would not like to see Turkey join the EU, and if your reasons are that they would have a detrimental effect on the UK, then join your OH and vote to get out of the EU.
“I wouldn't like to see Turkey join though.”
Then you should vote with your OH, ummm. Because, as sure as eggs is eggs, Turkey will be admitted to the EU. I won’t happen next week or even next year, but it will happen, you can rest assured. If you think the EU is going to plod along benignly, stumbling from one crisis to another without developing a few more to rain down on the hapless citizens, think again. As I said in a reply to another question, think of the difference between 1975 and now. Then repeat it again over the next 20, 30, or 40 years and see what you get.
Alas I am not quite so optimistic as you, OG. Countries like “secular” Turkey (99% Muslim, mainly Sunni) will not “move further towards present European style viewpoints,”. They will expect present European style viewpoints to be adjusted to suit theirs. And they will eventually get their way.
Then you should vote with your OH, ummm. Because, as sure as eggs is eggs, Turkey will be admitted to the EU. I won’t happen next week or even next year, but it will happen, you can rest assured. If you think the EU is going to plod along benignly, stumbling from one crisis to another without developing a few more to rain down on the hapless citizens, think again. As I said in a reply to another question, think of the difference between 1975 and now. Then repeat it again over the next 20, 30, or 40 years and see what you get.
Alas I am not quite so optimistic as you, OG. Countries like “secular” Turkey (99% Muslim, mainly Sunni) will not “move further towards present European style viewpoints,”. They will expect present European style viewpoints to be adjusted to suit theirs. And they will eventually get their way.
Was it Polly Toynbee, this morning, when the alarming Sunday Times survey of British Muslim values was being discussed said 'those attitudes will die out as the younger generations come through'.
Well, everything I've seen suggests younger Muslims hold more regressive views and are less inclined to integrate than the older ones.
Well, everything I've seen suggests younger Muslims hold more regressive views and are less inclined to integrate than the older ones.
“Why would turkey need to join when they receive money and have a pass through to all the Schenectady countries already”
Because (a) the money they have recently been promised will be but a drop in the ocean compared to the dosh they will receive annually as a full EU member and (b) they have “only” currently been offered visa-free access to the EU. They will still need a passport to enter the EU (though of course once in a Schengen nation they will be able to travel freely across the Schengen area). Romania and Bulgaria are legally obliged to join Schengen and so will Turkey be (there is no Schenegn opt-out for new members). No passport checks are necessary (or allowed) to travel between Schengen nations. Travelling from Turkey to Bulgaria will be like travelling from France to Belgium. This is fine as far as the Turks go (if you like the thought of around 77m Muslims having unrestricted access to and the right to settle in the rest of the EU, including the UK, that is). But it also means that the EU’s south-eastern external borders will then lie with Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Since the current borders seem to be, to put it kindly, a little porous to say the least, just stretching as they do as far as Greece, this expansion may concern some people. To grasp why it means that that anyone managing to enter Turkey from those countries (or indeed from anywhere else) will face no border checks between there and Calais.
This is just one of the particularly exciting “developments” the EU has up its sleeve in the forthcoming years and anybody voting to remain should be clear in their mind that this will happen – no ifs or buts. They need to consider whether the alleged “advantages” of EU membership are worth having if it means we will be forced to open our borders even further to uncontrollable immigration which will undoubtedly occur.
I’m just glancing through my 34p booklet, delivered today. Of the 16 pages, two are the covers and seven are pictures. Amongst the remaining seven pages of quite large print, I cannot find any that are worth such a sacrifice. It suggests that EU reforms have led to a 40% decrease in air fares and there will be a cap on mobile roaming charges. But not much else. (not really too good if that's all there is to shout about). On the topic in question (“Controlling immigration and securing our borders”) it correctly states that the EU is not part of Schengen. But it disingenuously goes on to say “…this gives us the right to check everyone, including EU nationals, arriving from continental Europe”. Again, perfectly true, but it fails to say that we have no right to refuse any of them entry of the right to settle. And this will stretch to 77m more upon Turkey joining the club.
“PS Whatever happened to the ones who showed up at Akrotiri?”
90 of the 115 who “accidentally” landed on RAF Akrotiri last October were accepted for asylum by Cyprus in November. The Cypriots refused to consider the claims of the other 25 due to unspecified “security problems”. To my utter astonishment it does not seem to be too easy to find out what has happened to them.
Because (a) the money they have recently been promised will be but a drop in the ocean compared to the dosh they will receive annually as a full EU member and (b) they have “only” currently been offered visa-free access to the EU. They will still need a passport to enter the EU (though of course once in a Schengen nation they will be able to travel freely across the Schengen area). Romania and Bulgaria are legally obliged to join Schengen and so will Turkey be (there is no Schenegn opt-out for new members). No passport checks are necessary (or allowed) to travel between Schengen nations. Travelling from Turkey to Bulgaria will be like travelling from France to Belgium. This is fine as far as the Turks go (if you like the thought of around 77m Muslims having unrestricted access to and the right to settle in the rest of the EU, including the UK, that is). But it also means that the EU’s south-eastern external borders will then lie with Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Since the current borders seem to be, to put it kindly, a little porous to say the least, just stretching as they do as far as Greece, this expansion may concern some people. To grasp why it means that that anyone managing to enter Turkey from those countries (or indeed from anywhere else) will face no border checks between there and Calais.
This is just one of the particularly exciting “developments” the EU has up its sleeve in the forthcoming years and anybody voting to remain should be clear in their mind that this will happen – no ifs or buts. They need to consider whether the alleged “advantages” of EU membership are worth having if it means we will be forced to open our borders even further to uncontrollable immigration which will undoubtedly occur.
I’m just glancing through my 34p booklet, delivered today. Of the 16 pages, two are the covers and seven are pictures. Amongst the remaining seven pages of quite large print, I cannot find any that are worth such a sacrifice. It suggests that EU reforms have led to a 40% decrease in air fares and there will be a cap on mobile roaming charges. But not much else. (not really too good if that's all there is to shout about). On the topic in question (“Controlling immigration and securing our borders”) it correctly states that the EU is not part of Schengen. But it disingenuously goes on to say “…this gives us the right to check everyone, including EU nationals, arriving from continental Europe”. Again, perfectly true, but it fails to say that we have no right to refuse any of them entry of the right to settle. And this will stretch to 77m more upon Turkey joining the club.
“PS Whatever happened to the ones who showed up at Akrotiri?”
90 of the 115 who “accidentally” landed on RAF Akrotiri last October were accepted for asylum by Cyprus in November. The Cypriots refused to consider the claims of the other 25 due to unspecified “security problems”. To my utter astonishment it does not seem to be too easy to find out what has happened to them.
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