Has Red Ken Gone Mad?

[youngmafbog]

The EU might be the Tories Nemesis, but the Jewish issue looks like being Labours.

Has Corbyn got the balls (not pixie) to deal with this? Or does he hold a sympathy with them like many lefty supporters of Hamas?

http://news.sky.com/story/1686687/ken-must-go-over-hitler-comment-labour-mps

[dannyk13]

Corbyn has already expressed sympathetic feelings towards Hamas so it is unlikely he will censure Livingstone.

[jim360]

"Gone" might be optimistic.

[ivor4781]

Israel is acting against the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding Palestine why aren't sanctions being applied to them

[Gromit]

YMB,

No, he is stating an historical fact. It may be uncomfortable for present day jews to admit that jewish leaders worked with the Nazis to repatriate Jews, but they did.

Why Ken cannot mention the fact without being accused of disgusting racism by a colleague is a mystery. Probably more to do between the in-fighting between left and right factions in the Labour Party, than anti semitism.

[Jackdaw33]

I find it odd that Jewish leaders worked with the Nazis to repatriate Jews as Israel was not founded until 3 years after the Nazis fell from power.

[Gromit]

Jack
They were to be repatriated to Palestine.

[naomi24]

Gromit,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

[Gromit]

Jack

// The Haavara Agreement was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.
The Haavara Agreement was thought among certain circles to be a possible way to rid the country of its supposed "Jewish problem." The head of the Middle Eastern division of the foreign ministry, Werner Otto von Hentig, supported the policy of concentrating Jews in Palestine. //


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

Livingstone seems to be being branded a disgusting racist for mentioning this agreement, even though there is no denying that the agreement was true. It was a bit of a strange arguement though, she had tweeted that Israel should have been in the US and Livingstone reminded everyone that the Nazis supported Jews going to Palestine. But it is not racist or anti semitic to mention Haavara.

[naomi24]

Despite the agreement, link above, Ken is wrong. Hitler didn't support Zionism - there was no Israel and it wasn't within the Nazi's agenda to attempt to establish an Israeli state. They simply wanted rid of the Jews. Personally, I've always thought Ken was potty.

[Khandro]

Not only is he mad, he is completely wrong; Hitler was a closet Muslim because he admired its Fascist structure.

[Svejk]

If it was UKIP members saying Hitler wasn't such a bad fellow, we'd be seeing a very different response.

[TheChair]

We live in a world where any criticism of Israel the state (even if made by Jews), is now labelled antisemitism, and statements of fact are labelled as insane, if they happen to be unpleasant.

[TheChair]

"If it was UKIP members saying Hitler wasn't such a bad fellow, we'd be seeing a very different response."
Except, of course that nobody said that Hitler "wasn't such a bad fellow".

[naomi24]

TheChair, //statements of fact are labelled as insane//

Ken Livingstone hasn't made a statement of fact. He's wrong.

[Svejk]

Yes they have. They're a disgrace and so are their defenders.

[Old_Geezer]

It would be interesting to hear a historian's perspective on that. I have no idea if, initially, the Nazis simply wanted to deport all Jews.

[Old_Geezer]

Ah I see Gromit. One learns something every day.

[Gromit]

John Mann accuses Livingstone of being a "Nazi apologist" for mentioning the Haavard Agreement. But Livingstone's comment was not exonerating the Nazis of anything or supporting them. He used it to discredit people objecting to Naz Shahs comment that Israel should be in the US.

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36160135

[naomi24]

OG, //I have no idea if, initially, the Nazis simply wanted to deport all Jews. //

I think that was the general idea - and on terms that were financially beneficial to Germany - but Zionism wasn't on the agenda.