Was The British Empire Good Or Bad?

[anotheoldgit]

Just been watching The Big Question on BBC1, today it was about The British Empire.

Judging by the ethnics in the audience it was bad, yet it is queer that although they kicked the big, bad, British out of their country, they have now chosen to live amongst here.

Yes they kicked us out without a mention of the word Racist, yet if we were to do likewise and now kick them out of our country, then that would be Racist.

Interesting to note that typically for the BBC, the ethnics got the highest number of persons slagging off the British, with only about two whites defending us.

[-Talbot-]

Sort of ... What have the British ever done for us
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

[New Judge]

I've asked quite a few (that still live in the "old" Empire). Most of them say that without a doubt the period of British rule was the period that turned their countries from a backward kharzi into a nation fit for the modern world. And a lot of them go on to say that the current period (since their various independences) is the period that is seeing their country go from a nation fit for the modern world to a backward kharzi.

[Svejk]

trt ## What about that young Indian? defended throwing wives on their husband's funeral pyres by saying, ' They all volunteered, didn't they.' ##

///When was this Svejk? ///

On the programme AOG is talking about.

[Svejk]

It's true that the British Empire wasn't a multi-culti, LGBQTI Shangri-la. But it was a sight better than what the majority of people had before.

[Togo]

I wonder if any of you are familiar with the Nguni people of Africa, which include the Zulu of which the Matabele and Qwabe (is that name familiar)tribes are offshoots. Now the historic migration of the Nguni saw the indigenous people of Southern Africa, the Khoisan dispossessed of their lands and led to the imperialist militarism of Shaku Zulu and the Mfecane of King Mzilikazi, a programme of conquests and forced assimilations which brought about the deaths of between one and two million black Africans in the early 19th century. That all took place before the British had any part in the evolution of the politics of South Africa. There are statues and memorials to both Shaka and Mzilikazi in South Africa, but we are castigated by the very people like Ntokozo Qwabe for having a statue that he feels is insensitive whilst he studies at one of our Universities. Perhaps we should cause agitation on behalf of the Khoisan people who were a peaceful people, invaded by invading imperialists.

[sandyRoe]

Tambourine, brief 'Opium Wars' were fought against the Chinese authorities to ensure the supply of recreational drugs for their people weren't disrupted.
The Indian labourers on foreign owned plantations would have had no say in what they grew.

[sandyRoe]

I believe the great trading house, Jardine Matheson, got its start in this trade.

[stuey]

What a coincidence! I'm sitting here reading this thread, and the local regimental army cadets are practicing "Rule Britannia".

[Togo]

//I believe the great trading house, Jardine Matheson, got its start in this trade.//

I believe plenty of "local boys" made big money drug dealing Sandy.

[sandyRoe]

Two wrongs don't make a right.
Though opium wasn't illegal in England at that time so there must have been a feeling the Chinese authorities were meddling in free trade.

[Togo]

The Chinese knew about and had been using opium for centuries Sandy, as their porcelain decorations show. They did not though cultivate it in quantity. It was also smoked all over Asia, well before the British had ever heard of it. Climate and all that.

[Togo]

I can't help but note that they who look back on the old British institutions with jaundiced prejudice, are the very screamers who profess to being liberal and tolerant, with a dislike of judgemental opinions. How very convenient for them.

[sandyRoe]

I can't be liberal or tolerant where drug dealers are concerned. Whoever they are.

[Togo]

Nor can I Sandy, plus the previous post was not a reference to your good self, but was intended to be wry comment. How clever we all are with the benefit of hindsight.

[jim360]

I don't think we can hide the past behind "hindsight" all the time. At least some horrors from history it's fairly obvious that even the perpetrators knew what they were doing was wrong, but carried on anyway. One can see this, for example, whenever a cover-up was involved -- as a rule, people don't cover up their actions if they don't think they need to be hidden.

The British Empire perhaps gets too much stick but most of it is justified -- as long as it's placed in context. First one is that it wasn't the only Empire at this sort of crap -- Spanish, French, Dutch, Portuguese... well, European in general. Not to mention various local empires or civilisations. In general they are all as bad as each other. I think some people twist this to justify the British Empire's actions as either typical of the time or somehow not really as bad, but this is just the "well, he started it!" playground bullying excuse. It doesn't work there; it shouldn't here. And anyway, we did end up being the largest Empire the world's ever seen so, unsurprisingly, probably ended up with the most such deplorable actions overall, at the time at least.

None of this means that the British Empire was a "bad thing". Equally, the various atrocities we did commit surely ought to sway anyone from thinking of the Empire as intrinsically a "good thing". Perhaps the Empire was good for countries, but it was fairly awful for their people. People don't, as a rule, like being invaded by force of arms by a foreign force and then ruled with no say whatsoever over the laws consequently imposed (sound familiar?).

There appears to be a mentality among some that Britain was the best thing that happened to the world. I'm not sure the world always agrees. Perhaps it was, though, among the "least awful".

[naomi24]

Flipping brilliant!!

[naomi24]

^The British Empire that is.

[jim360]

I guess it was too much to hope that you were so complimentary about me :P

[naomi24]

Haha! Got to admit Jim, that was posted as a rather hasty 'ps'. :o)

[Togo]

// People don't, as a rule, like being invaded by force of arms by a foreign force and then ruled with no say whatsoever over the laws consequently imposed (sound familiar?).//

360 is of course pro EUSSR. He will make excuses for that empire in advance, and at great length.