Selfish Cheapskate Parenting Now Legal.........

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-36277940
In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?

[Hypognosis]

@jim

Like you, between infant school and 6th form, all I can remember was a week for a contagious infection, a week for a debilitating, non-contagious infection but there must have been a smattering of single days or gippy-tummy afternoons. I disliked being away from school because that's where my entire social life was.

We grew up in a touristy county so holidays generally consisted of two weeks with the grandparents, nearly 300 miles away, visiting the other relatives, who could not afford reciprocal visits, plus sightseeing around London. Even this stopped when we were teenagers.

I can't claim we were poor but I can't explain why my parents had no interest in foreign travel. It may be inverted snobbery, a thing done solely to show off how much money they have and bore us rigid with bawdy tales of what fun they had. The Grand Tour was, in Victorian times, what posh folks did and social climbers just copy what posh people do.

So, big dose of class envy, from my point of view. I take your point about "in context" (a good attender/performer, no harm done) but it appears to be very much an insider's view (never did me any harm). Rules are for *all* of us and are generally an attempt to protect a swathe of society from harm. Exceptions always undermine this "why them but not us?" and ruin social cohesion.

imho

[jim360]

Well, possibly. But perhaps you should also bear in mind that, for some, it was essential if they wanted to have any holiday at all, and not just selfish? And that, for some, it had no meaningful impact on their education whatever? Because, say, the parents who had no choice in the matter also cared about their children and knew how to provide for their education as well as the school did?

[jambutty]

gness - Walks along the front eating ice cream, paddling in the sea and running alog the beach, naming wildflowers in the fields - ah bliss x

[jambutty]

Sorry to go off topic, I'm wallowing a bit !

[ToraToraTora]

Danny K "TTT. tosh tosh tosh " - British civil law is largely precedent. The precedent is now set. The fines will have to end every parent will now be able to ignore the rules and cite this case. Tell me if any of that is Tosh.

[jim360]

I *can* claim we were poor, at least at the time. Or poorish. Not in a position to afford expensive foreign holidays, nor to holiday outside term-time. Nothing to do with snobbery.

I don't buy the "why them and not us?" counter, by the way. Firstly, this ruling applies to "you" as well as "them". Secondly, presumably the reason that "you" didn't take holidays during terms is perhaps because, well, you can afford not to? A rule like this penalises the poor, who have little choice in the matter, far more than it does the rich, who have the freedom money grants them. Not that I mean to envy, but it's hardly a valid complaint if you can afford it.

Rules are for all, but I don't agree with blanket rules that have no consideration whatsoever for circumstances. Never have done, never will do. Wherever possible, a rule should care about who it's being applied to. And if it does not, then it's a bad rule and should be changed.

[dannyk13]

All of it, any future cases will (as always) be decided upon the individual circumstances of that case.

[dannyk13]

^^^ For TTT

[gness]

Bliss, Jam....or as my little one wrote for a school competition:

Dad took us to the seaside
To have some fun one day.
Blue skies and lots of sunshine,
The weatherman did say.

By noon the wind was howling
The clouds were full of rain.
Put on your macs and wellies,
Michael Fish is wrong again.....

There are ten verses......all full of wonderful disasters.......bliss!

[jim360]

Is that from the same little one as went on to work for the Met Office (I think)? A guess someone had to put Michael Fish right, eh?

[gness]

The one who takes after her Mum, Jim......If it's wrong....SORT IT!.....☺

[ToraToraTora]

Oh dear danny, you mean they'll repeat this case for every case? Nope, they'll refer to it and the school will back down because they'll not want to spend another gazillion on a lawyer to fight a case, the outcome of which they already know. The precedent has been set. Geddit? So when did you take your kids out of school?

[sunny-dave]

I don't want to get involved in the rights/wrongs of this - I have no kids & therefore my opinions are certainly uninformed and probably irrelevant.

BUT ...I suspect that this bloke has actually taken careful aim and shot himself and all other "termtime holiday takers" in the foot.

The Government is already looking at toughening up the wording of the regulations, which will inevitably remove any discretion on the part of either schools or Local Authorities - making it much more difficult to take chidren out of school, even for entirely legitimate reasons.

[mikey4444]

My childhood holiday were spent in the UK as well, and my parents could hardly afford them, let alone abroad ( but there again....who DID go abroad in the 50's ? )

Our holidays were spent on a farm on the edge of Dartmoor. The only reason that we went there is that my Dad worked on the farm, in return for free board and lodge for us all !

I only found that out about 15 years ago, after my Dad had passed away.
I noticed that Dad was working with the Farmer during the day, but I always thought it was because he enjoyed it, rather than having to do it.


I am still tending to agree with TTT here. There is a principle that kids should not be taken out of school to go on hols, accept under certain conditions, like family funerals.

This court case will now send a signal to every parent in the country that its OK to do it....the wrong signal in my opinion.

[Hypognosis]

@jim

//But perhaps you should also bear in mind that, for some, it was essential if they wanted to have any holiday at all, and not just selfish?//

You've lost me with this bit. What is it that stops kids in this position from getting their standard school holiday time? It's 6 weeks, iirc. Why the need for an extra two?


Is this anything to do with the ugliness of how workplaces divvy up who takes their holiday, when?

Note: Being unmarried and without kids, I've found myself on the wrong end of this. I effectively had no choice but to be in the sweaty, humid office during prime summer weather. Last bastion of workplace discrimination because you're totally outnumbered and they'd only say you're making their kids suffer, if you selfishly tried for an August slot.

[jambutty]

You know gness, we didn't even care when it rained. I can see my little one's face now, full of fun and wonder. Oh dear, I'm going to have to go now, I'm starting to tear up x

[jim360]

The "precedent" is that an unauthorised holiday absence cannot be penalised if it is exceptional. If, on the other hand, it falls into a pattern, then schools still have the power to penalise parents. So it doesn't mean a free-for-all, it doesn't mean that schools are neutered. And it *does* mean that rules that were tightened in such a way as to deny some children their chance for a holiday can no longer be applied so rigidly.

[gness]

It's not always for an extra two, Hypo....there are going to be some exceptional cases.

My son has a contract to work in schools....work that can only be done in holiday time.....so he and his men work their socks off during the summer holidays......and he takes his kids away for a week in term time....x

[jim360]

Long run hypo, you'd have to ask my parents. I can ask them for you, if you like. I already have. It was one week's holiday in school time, not two. The alternative prices were unaffordable, so it was essentially necessary if we were to have much holiday at all. And such disruption as it caused was soon recovered, both for me and my younger brother.

I think the "principle" Mikey refers to is actually rather recent. I'm fairly sure the holidays I took were "authorised absences". Only recently have the regulations been changed so that all holidays count as unauthorised, so it's not really a principle but a government dictat.

[mallyh]

my oh was in the navy and quite often away during school holidays so holidays had to be taken when he was home .