Politics7 mins ago
Selfish Cheapskate Parenting Now Legal.........
183 Answers
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In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
Answers
Oh dear! A topic (almost) as dear to my heart as the wretched EU! “When will our dopey judges move to this planet?” Alas it’s not the fault of dopey judges (even dopey New Judges!). It’s down to sloppy legislation. The 1996 Education Act simply says that parents must ensure that their children attend school “regularly
17:34 Fri 13th May 2016
Whenever anybody argues in favour of taking children out of school during term time, it's normally with personal examples. This makes arguing against it difficult because it looks like we're attacking you personally. But the point is, in the general case, it's a really bad idea.
Children already typically have 13 weeks' holiday a year and they don't need another 3-4 weeks which, as previously stated, also costs everyone else. The main reason for children to be taken out during term time is to save money which ironically, if it was generally allowed, would not happen or would at least be lessened (as demand for holidays would be levelled through the season). New Judge is right that if you pay for private education then you appreciate the value/cost of what you're paying for and generally don't take children out. The exact same principle applies to state education, which we're all paying for, but parents don't seem to appreciate the value/cost in the same way ...
Children already typically have 13 weeks' holiday a year and they don't need another 3-4 weeks which, as previously stated, also costs everyone else. The main reason for children to be taken out during term time is to save money which ironically, if it was generally allowed, would not happen or would at least be lessened (as demand for holidays would be levelled through the season). New Judge is right that if you pay for private education then you appreciate the value/cost of what you're paying for and generally don't take children out. The exact same principle applies to state education, which we're all paying for, but parents don't seem to appreciate the value/cost in the same way ...
We would have to make great changes to our education system...the State system....before I'd agree that missing a week or two is in any way harmful or wrong.
As it is it's failing far too many children even if they have 100% attendance....
But you are right in saying that many parents don't value an education....
Dave suggested earlier that weeks off could be exchanged for weeks in August....I say that some, in fact many, parents would welcome that.... because often we are just seen as a child minding service.
As it is it's failing far too many children even if they have 100% attendance....
But you are right in saying that many parents don't value an education....
Dave suggested earlier that weeks off could be exchanged for weeks in August....I say that some, in fact many, parents would welcome that.... because often we are just seen as a child minding service.
“NJ, the parents are responsible.”
Ah, so not the pupils themselves as you first suggested, pixie.
Your example is not relevant to this question. A child with an illness or injury cannot attend school. It’s obvious that the school must make accommodation for that and you did your bit as well (though many parents would not).
But this is not about unavoidable absences. It is about planned, deliberate absences facilitated by and with the connivance of the parents. It is quite true that a week (or maybe two) absence may not particularly harm a child provided measures are in place to assist the child to learn what was taught whilst he was away. But a school cannot possibly be expected to cope if all parents take their children out of school as an when they think fit. And that’s what this ruling means – children with an otherwise good attendance record can be taken out of school for a holiday whenever it suits the parents.
Parents who say “It’s not doing my child any harm” or “I know best how to treat my child and a holiday is part of their education” (and other such nonsense) are deluding themselves. Firstly they are wrong: I missed a couple of spells in school through illness and injury and it was a struggle to catch up. But secondly, and more importantly, they are not considering the effect their action has on the school’s ability to cope and hence on the other pupils.
In short, they are being selfish.
Ah, so not the pupils themselves as you first suggested, pixie.
Your example is not relevant to this question. A child with an illness or injury cannot attend school. It’s obvious that the school must make accommodation for that and you did your bit as well (though many parents would not).
But this is not about unavoidable absences. It is about planned, deliberate absences facilitated by and with the connivance of the parents. It is quite true that a week (or maybe two) absence may not particularly harm a child provided measures are in place to assist the child to learn what was taught whilst he was away. But a school cannot possibly be expected to cope if all parents take their children out of school as an when they think fit. And that’s what this ruling means – children with an otherwise good attendance record can be taken out of school for a holiday whenever it suits the parents.
Parents who say “It’s not doing my child any harm” or “I know best how to treat my child and a holiday is part of their education” (and other such nonsense) are deluding themselves. Firstly they are wrong: I missed a couple of spells in school through illness and injury and it was a struggle to catch up. But secondly, and more importantly, they are not considering the effect their action has on the school’s ability to cope and hence on the other pupils.
In short, they are being selfish.
The parents or pupils- depending on age,obviously. I would expect a 15 year old to take responsibility,but not a 5 year old. I do see your point,but holidays are educational in themselves. Mine taught themselves to swim and learnt French from a few weeks in France, as well as seeing different people and places. It's always worthwhile.
Perhaps while these parents are away on holiday, the teachers should enter their home, swap the contents of kitchen cupboards A and C, B with F, move furniture and ornaments to random rooms, to symbolise the organisational task they have added to all the teachers' busy workloads.
Eight or ten teachers affected, per pupil?
Eight or ten teachers affected, per pupil?
Youngmafbog.....that is such a silly thing to post and adds nothing to the thread other than to tell us you want to have your say without reading all views.....read, think and then post something worthwhile.
Ellipsis...no....it's not always about money.
Togo...my workload was never added to by a kid going on holiday..... new initiatives....OFSTED.... Yes......both added to my workload but not to the benefit of the children...x
Ellipsis...no....it's not always about money.
Togo...my workload was never added to by a kid going on holiday..... new initiatives....OFSTED.... Yes......both added to my workload but not to the benefit of the children...x
@ellipsis
//if everybody took holidays during term time then those holidays would become more expensive.//
That was my forecast.
Supply -- demand -- supply -- demand; how hard can it be?
Incidentally, if peak season really is "the going rate", doesn't that signify under-supply in the hotel/holiday resort industry (demand is outstripping it)? I thought the planet is teeming with holiday resorts, these days?
Greece is down on visitors because... well, let's not go into that story again.
//if everybody took holidays during term time then those holidays would become more expensive.//
That was my forecast.
Supply -- demand -- supply -- demand; how hard can it be?
Incidentally, if peak season really is "the going rate", doesn't that signify under-supply in the hotel/holiday resort industry (demand is outstripping it)? I thought the planet is teeming with holiday resorts, these days?
Greece is down on visitors because... well, let's not go into that story again.
@gness
//Togo...my workload was never added to by a kid going on holiday..//
*A* kid? Singular?
Okay, how about 2 want one week and 2 want a fortnight each (different fortnights), in January, for skiing, the same first two each want one week added into the Easter break, one wants the last week in May, the other wants that wasted final week, in July. Six other induviduals want one week each, no identical weeks, various pounts in May, June and July.
Draw up an example catch up schedule, based on a historical annual lesson plan, try and calculate its impact in non-holidaying pupils and feel free to list any medication you end up requiring when curriculum changes and OFSTED are lumped on top.
//Togo...my workload was never added to by a kid going on holiday..//
*A* kid? Singular?
Okay, how about 2 want one week and 2 want a fortnight each (different fortnights), in January, for skiing, the same first two each want one week added into the Easter break, one wants the last week in May, the other wants that wasted final week, in July. Six other induviduals want one week each, no identical weeks, various pounts in May, June and July.
Draw up an example catch up schedule, based on a historical annual lesson plan, try and calculate its impact in non-holidaying pupils and feel free to list any medication you end up requiring when curriculum changes and OFSTED are lumped on top.
@prudie
I hadn't given their final exam results any thought. I've only been arguing on a "it's the principal of the thing" basis. I know people pick and choose which laws to abide by. You only have to watch the outside lane on the motorway to see group disobedience in action.
Anyway, let the statistics have their say. Let's see final grades plotted against lifetime absence record and see which of us is right.
Seeing whether low absentee grades are being dragged down will be near impossible without a control group, not undergoing such a change. Private schools might be suitable in terms of compliance but aren't a like for like analogue because education is a synergistic process. In the three sciences, some concepts did not 'gel' for me until into sixth form where concepts introduced in 3rd year physics suddenly gained a meaning and purpose. Taught in isolation, you'd end up with a bag of bits and none of the big picture. Must be the same in the arts.
I hadn't given their final exam results any thought. I've only been arguing on a "it's the principal of the thing" basis. I know people pick and choose which laws to abide by. You only have to watch the outside lane on the motorway to see group disobedience in action.
Anyway, let the statistics have their say. Let's see final grades plotted against lifetime absence record and see which of us is right.
Seeing whether low absentee grades are being dragged down will be near impossible without a control group, not undergoing such a change. Private schools might be suitable in terms of compliance but aren't a like for like analogue because education is a synergistic process. In the three sciences, some concepts did not 'gel' for me until into sixth form where concepts introduced in 3rd year physics suddenly gained a meaning and purpose. Taught in isolation, you'd end up with a bag of bits and none of the big picture. Must be the same in the arts.
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