Shoota that link is now saved to my favs. It is a little late for me to read it all right now, but I will register to enable log in tomorrow morning. I am goosed after digging up a 6 sy yard patio and getting it in a skip today(with the help of my son), a slug or 3 of Shiraz has done the rest. Svejk I will also have a gweld at your wiki link again as well.