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Old White Men Are The Problem !
EU referendum: Old white men are the problem for the Remain campaign, says Labour's shadow Europe minister.
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Ah, a little more enlightenment:
“I have no confidence that enough money would have been used to help mostly Labour-voting areas around Britain whose economies were wrecked by the de-industrialisation polices.
So essentially because you didn’t much like the policies on spending that the elected UK government followed, you were happy (presumably until 1997 and after 2010) to see vast sums sent to the unelected EU to be partly repaid and spent on policies you did approve of. So, in a nutshell, you see the EU as a convenient way of partly circumventing the policies of a UK government you do not care for. So what happens in the event that you might have in place a UK government you do approve of, but the EU prevents that government from carrying out its manifesto (see my earlier post for reasons why that may happen)? Or haven't you thought that one through yet?
“I have no confidence that enough money would have been used to help mostly Labour-voting areas around Britain whose economies were wrecked by the de-industrialisation polices.
So essentially because you didn’t much like the policies on spending that the elected UK government followed, you were happy (presumably until 1997 and after 2010) to see vast sums sent to the unelected EU to be partly repaid and spent on policies you did approve of. So, in a nutshell, you see the EU as a convenient way of partly circumventing the policies of a UK government you do not care for. So what happens in the event that you might have in place a UK government you do approve of, but the EU prevents that government from carrying out its manifesto (see my earlier post for reasons why that may happen)? Or haven't you thought that one through yet?
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Your answer at 15:03 provides no details, Mikey. All it says is that you’ve nothing useful to add to what you’ve already said, which is very little.
You seem to be basing your decision on the fact that the EU returned to the UK a few bob of its own money which it (the EU) decided should be spent as you preferred. Perhaps a straight question may help: are you happy to see the vast areas of control over vital areas of legislation which I pointed out – and which will only expand - contracted out away from the UK Parliament? Nobody who is unhappy with that should vote to remain because everything else that concerns them (such as a few pence off their phone bills or a couple of quid off their week in Mallorca) will pale into insignificance.
Just give us a few reasons why we should remain (apart from Wales being bailed out when a Tory government is in power).
You seem to be basing your decision on the fact that the EU returned to the UK a few bob of its own money which it (the EU) decided should be spent as you preferred. Perhaps a straight question may help: are you happy to see the vast areas of control over vital areas of legislation which I pointed out – and which will only expand - contracted out away from the UK Parliament? Nobody who is unhappy with that should vote to remain because everything else that concerns them (such as a few pence off their phone bills or a couple of quid off their week in Mallorca) will pale into insignificance.
Just give us a few reasons why we should remain (apart from Wales being bailed out when a Tory government is in power).
"...it won't make any difference to the ordinary bloke in the street."
I don't share your optimisim (or is it pessimism) 10CS. One of the biggest threats to continued membership is the huge level of uncontrolled immigration from within the EU which will increase dramatically as the EU expands its borders and the mainland economies continue to shrink. If you think this will make no difference to "the ordinary bloke in the street" think again. Think about healthcare facilities, schools and housing for starters. All these services are currently stretched to their limits. A third of a million people arrived from the EU to settle here last year. Think how that level of sustained immigration effects the "ordinary bloke in the street".
I don't share your optimisim (or is it pessimism) 10CS. One of the biggest threats to continued membership is the huge level of uncontrolled immigration from within the EU which will increase dramatically as the EU expands its borders and the mainland economies continue to shrink. If you think this will make no difference to "the ordinary bloke in the street" think again. Think about healthcare facilities, schools and housing for starters. All these services are currently stretched to their limits. A third of a million people arrived from the EU to settle here last year. Think how that level of sustained immigration effects the "ordinary bloke in the street".
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"NJ, people were migrating to this country in droves well before we joined the EU in 1973; from the West Indies, Asia, Africa. One result of that can be seen in Leicester, where white people are in the minority due to that."
Yes thanks, OG, I was about to say the same. The immigration of the 1950s and 60s from the "Old Commonwealth" countries was at the invitation of the UK government. It was undertaken to fill job vacancies mainly in public services. Like immigration from outside the EU now, it was controlled. Furthermore, as intense as it may have seemed, the numbers were nowhere near the levels seen in recent years in the form of uncontrolled immigration from the EU. Between 1955 and 1962 around 470,000 arrived (just under 60,000 per year). For the rest of the 60s the average was around 75,000 pa. These were people we had been invited to come, and who mainly had jobs to come to. The UK controlled the numbers and could plan for their arrival.
In the last two years alone around 600,000 people arrived from the EU to settle here. The UK had no control whatsoever over this number; many of those arrivals had no job to come to, no skills and nowhere to live. If you go to London’s Marble Arch and walk through the pedestrian subways beneath the roundabout you will find quite a few of them – mainly Romanians - living there.
Your comparison is completely inappropriate, 10CS. The two influxes are not in the remotest respect similar. So I will say again, if you think continued membership of the EU will not have an effect on the “bloke in the street” you cannot have given it much thought.
Yes thanks, OG, I was about to say the same. The immigration of the 1950s and 60s from the "Old Commonwealth" countries was at the invitation of the UK government. It was undertaken to fill job vacancies mainly in public services. Like immigration from outside the EU now, it was controlled. Furthermore, as intense as it may have seemed, the numbers were nowhere near the levels seen in recent years in the form of uncontrolled immigration from the EU. Between 1955 and 1962 around 470,000 arrived (just under 60,000 per year). For the rest of the 60s the average was around 75,000 pa. These were people we had been invited to come, and who mainly had jobs to come to. The UK controlled the numbers and could plan for their arrival.
In the last two years alone around 600,000 people arrived from the EU to settle here. The UK had no control whatsoever over this number; many of those arrivals had no job to come to, no skills and nowhere to live. If you go to London’s Marble Arch and walk through the pedestrian subways beneath the roundabout you will find quite a few of them – mainly Romanians - living there.
Your comparison is completely inappropriate, 10CS. The two influxes are not in the remotest respect similar. So I will say again, if you think continued membership of the EU will not have an effect on the “bloke in the street” you cannot have given it much thought.
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