Perhaps Food For Thought, Before You Vote?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3651524/Our-chance-escape-disaster-movie-unfolding-Europe-RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-stark-choice-facing-Britain-Thursday-s-referendum.html

[New Judge]

Type Your Answer Here...The problem is, aog, that far too few people have really given much thought to the constitutional and sovereignty threats which membership of the EU brings. They read that they will be £568.19s.11d (or whatever today’s figure is) worse off if they vote to leave, that they will have to have a visa to visit Benidorm and that the foreigners working in the NHS will all be repatriated. So they think we ought to remain.

I have a sad suspicion that these votes will win the day and the UK will rue the day for a generation or more. One thing is for sure: to vote to Remain is not to support the status quo. There is no status quo as far as the EU is concerned. That wretched organisation has but one aim – a federal Europe. No amount of “opt outs” or concessions will derail that ambition. Mr Littlejohn (and many others) has given the electorate adequate warning of what is to come and it will be no use them moaning in a couple of years’ time when the unelected elite that runs the Brussels machine encroaches ever more into their lives. By then, getting a visa to visit Benidorm will be the very least of their worries.

[Baldric]

People really need to take note of this paragraph imo.

///It's no good arguing that because Britain is not part of the Schengen free-movement treaty, we will be unaffected by this huge population upheaval. Once the newcomers have been granted EU citizenship we shall be powerless to prevent them moving here if we decide to stay.///

[albaqwerty]

I wish to goodness I could find, on-line, a copy of a 'story' that was in my late great-aunts copy-typing book, possibly from the late 40's that said why the United States of Europe wouldn't work.

[Zacs-Master]

I do wish people would take heed of baldrics comments. Once again I feel duty bound (or at least compelled) to point out that the decision we are making is whether we want the UK government, who are criticised / lambasted on a daily basis on here, to have a say in all aspects of our life or whether we want Europe to have a say and much less of one that the Brexiters would have us believe.

[Baldric]

Zacs, as I pointed out earlier, we can do something about who governs an indepentent UK, we can do absolutely nothing about the faceless ruling body of the EU.

[Baldric]

Independent ^^ . . . Grrr!

[naomi24]

Zacs-Master, And I feel duty bound (or at least compelled) to respond yet again to your illogical offering. We want a UK government that we can criticise/ lambast on a daily basis on here - and have the opportunity to get rid of if we're dissatisfied.

[Zacs-Master]

and as I pointed out a minute ago....if you think that British politics is going to magically transform itself into a paragon of virtue then your sadly mistaken. It will be the same old suits saying the same old lies and breaking the same old promises with us lot moaning about them on here! Stop kidding yourselves that some magical savior is going to appear to cure our ills by voting leave. Sheesh.

[naomi24]

Zacs-Master, ... the difference being that we can elect our representatives and put names and faces to them. Who's pulling your strings?

[Baldric]

We're wasting our breath Naomi, he just doesn't or doesn't want to understand what's being said.

[naomi24]

:o)

[Zacs-Master]

I think it's 'you lot' doing the head burying in the sand act. Your not being honest with yourselves about what a leave vote will result in. Same old faces, same old lies just by people who speak English as their first language.

[Baldric]

The Remainiacs appear to be getting flustered!

[Zacs-Master]

No one is 'pulling my strings' by the way unlike some who would believe the 'everything in the garden will be rosy after a Brexit' crowd. Ironically it will probably be the most vocal on here who start to whinge about the government and politicians when trade & the economy suffers as many experts are predicting.

[Zacs-Master]

I am getting flustered I'll admit it, cos i think there's a strong chance that the 'rose tinted spectacle' brigade are leading us off the edge of a cliff.

[Orderlimit]

Take the spectacles off then Zac and think for yourself. Be strong, be real :)

[naomi24]

Zacs-Master, // Same old faces, same old lies //

Preferable to unseen, unknown faces and the same old lies.

[Baldric]

///the 'rose tinted spectacle' brigade are leading us off the edge of a cliff.///

That is exactly how we see you and the rest of the remaniacs.

[Zacs-Master]

Two well thought thru answers there.

[New Judge]

I think you are missing a vital point or two, Zacs.

Only the most naïve of Brexiteers believe that everything in the garden will be rosy should we leave. Indeed many of us – me included – believe that there will be a period of considerable instability following our departure (though nothing like the Armageddon forecast by some Remainers). Because, of course, so entwined are we with the EU and its institutions. But the difference is that to cope with that instability we will not be hidebound by the ever increasingly serious encroachment that the EU is making into their lives. Furthermore, that encroachment will increase as the EU struggles to cope with the needs and requirements of 28 (plus 5 candidates) very disparate nations.

You can ignore predictions from both sides about what will happen whether we stay or go because nobody knows. But with the evolution of the EU heading in only one direction the risk for the UK is not to leave but to remain. We’re not facing a leap off a cliff. We are contemplating the release from the shackles of a moribund, outdated institution that is no longer fit for purpose (and hasn’t been so for at least twenty years). Growth in the EU is the lowest of any area in the world bar Antarctica. There’s a great big world out there full of “ordinary” nations who make their own decisions and form their own relationships and trading deals with countries of their choice in a manner of their choosing. The UK cannot do that. Normal nations do not have to accept the free movement of people from 27 other nations in order to trade. They do not have their laws determined by a supranational unelected elite. They do not have a foreign court as the final arbiter for much of their legislation. They do not have to pay huge sums for the privilege of selling their goods and buying those of other nations. They do not have to fund a huge bureaucracy (£150m per annum just to up sticks from Brussels to Strasbourg ten times a year). I could go on, but there is nothing in the long term or the UK in the EU. If we were not members we would not be seeking to join. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the gist.

You can rest assured that if we do leave there will be no be no moans from me when short term instability ensues. It will be a small price to pay because I believe if we stay, in as little as five years the electorate will wonder what on earth they were thinking when they cast their votes in 2016.