Brexit

[dosset]

not sure if I trust the leave side ..if we exit and want to trade with EU then we will still have to accept the free movement EU citizens.so immigration will not alter

[Bertrum]

Oh great another one

[Svejk]

Don't talk nonsense.

[dannyk13]

///if we exit and want to trade with EU then we will still have to accept the free movement EU citizens///
Why? We traded with Eu countries before without allowing free access so why would that change

[-Talbot-]

I don't trust any side but that's politics ... who is the best liar ...

[AB Editor]

Moved to News.

[ToraToraTora]

and how did you arrive at that conclusion? How are trading agreements related to border controls?

[riptide]

you have it all wrong dosset, agree with Tora.

[jim360]

"... we *may* still have to accept the free movement of EU citizens..."

Like everything else, it will depend on who's negotiating and what their aims are. Nothing about Brexit is certain.

[dannyk13]

///Like everything else, it will depend on who's negotiating and what their aims are///
Why should that be.If we leave the EU they will have no control us and any trade deals will be negotiated with individual countries.

[Svejk]

If Brexit win and then someone goes down this road (out of spite, presumably) there will be blood on the streets.

[dannyk13]

have no ^^^

[Old_Geezer]

If we exit and want to trade with EU countries then there is nothing to stop us.

If we want to remove tariffs and sell to the single market, and the EU is daft enough to try to pull the "you must accept free movement of EU citizen" nonsense then they are told that is an immediate deal breaker and if they really want to tariffless trade with us, rather than trying it on, they need to stop being such a dick and negotiate properly.

Unstoppable immigration of EU citizens thus ceases to be an issue, and so immigration does alter.

[jim360]

In the first place, danny, for two years you're wrong by default. Leaving the EU requires triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty which implies a two-year period of negotiations, only at the end of which does the treaty cease to apply.

Then, after that, like any other country we would deal with the EU as a bloc (eg TTIP with the US, the pending Canada-EU deal, deals between the EU and certain African nations, etc.). And meanwhile other European non-EU countries, such as Norway, still accept some amount of rules as part of their deals with the EU. What deal we get may be similar, or radically different, but at any rate it's completely dishonest to pretend that Brexit guarantees zero EU influence on the UK from now on. dosset is no more right to insist that we *will* have to accept freedom of movement as you are to imply that we can bypass the EU entirely, starting Friday, after a vote to Leave.

[ichkeria]

Access to the single market would almost certainly mean having to accept free movement of labour
Of course, we could still trade with the EU and not have 'open borders' labour wise, but that where much of incertainty lies because that's where trade tariffs etc kick in, when the eventually it's been negotiated

[EDDIE51]

Does anyone seriously believe that we can walk out of the EU , and then demand and get the same or better trade conditions we had before we left, and what's more demand that their citizens are not allowed to come and work here, while our citizens who have moved into other EU states can stay there on the same terms as their own citizens.
If you do I am sorry for you.

[dannyk13]

Nobody is suggesting that Europeans cannot come here, only that there entry be controlled.

[fiction-factory]

Switzerland and Norway are cited as countries that thrive outside the EU. But under the trade agreements both have to allow free movement- explained here (I know some will say it's biased but still it is correct)
http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/immigration-and-justice/norway-and-switzerland/
Also as part of the trade arrangements Norway and Switzerland have to pay their share of EU contributions even though they are not members of EU-https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/27/norway-eu-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model.

[Ric.ror]

I think if we vote out everything and I mean EVERYTHING will start again with a blank canvas so we can make or break our own rules
When else would we get the chance to start all over again
That's why I am OUT

[fiction-factory]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/27/norway-eu-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model

Incidentally, although not in the EU Norway has had to take far more than its fair share of migrants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11190269/If-EU-migration-is-the-problem-Switzerland-and-Norway-are-not-the-answer.html

http://www.thelocal.no/20160112/norway-security-agency-muslim-immigration-brings-problems

[Old_Geezer]

I see no reason to feel sorry for those who are aware that they can negotiate a better deal than before, or choose to take their trade elsewhere. Although in reality if the EU insisted on not cutting a deal, then we can have tariffs both in and out instead (as would be the EU preference in that case) and we'd not need any single market benefits. Apart from tariffs and paperwork, which is a small benefit for both sides, it's not easy to recall any other benefit.