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With The Nhs Lacking In Funds, Should It's Money Be Spent On Such Things?
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TTT... there are women who cannot conceive because of medical conditions such as polycystic ovaries and endometriosis.
There are people receiving treatment for cancers who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish and live on KFC.
Am I alone in seeing the injustice of this?
Some women can't conceive because they have a MEDICAL condition and would never have a child without intervention in the former of IVF.
But an obese person who needs a joint replacement because their joints have crumbled under their mammoth weight or a a lifetime heavy smoker who needs an upper lobotomy + 6 cycles of adjuvant chemotherapy for lung cancer should just get their treatment without the bat of an eyelid?
There are people receiving treatment for cancers who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish and live on KFC.
Am I alone in seeing the injustice of this?
Some women can't conceive because they have a MEDICAL condition and would never have a child without intervention in the former of IVF.
But an obese person who needs a joint replacement because their joints have crumbled under their mammoth weight or a a lifetime heavy smoker who needs an upper lobotomy + 6 cycles of adjuvant chemotherapy for lung cancer should just get their treatment without the bat of an eyelid?
mushroom25
/// i'll say there is - all of what you put SP, plus more - like learning how to walk in the manner of your assigned gender. ///
That is purely cosmetic, there are many who find it difficult to walk in the manner of the gender in which they were born, such as those waiting to have hip replacements etc.
/// i'll say there is - all of what you put SP, plus more - like learning how to walk in the manner of your assigned gender. ///
That is purely cosmetic, there are many who find it difficult to walk in the manner of the gender in which they were born, such as those waiting to have hip replacements etc.
NoMercy
/// There are people receiving treatment for cancers who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish and live on KFC. ///
In your World what should we do with these people, let them die for the evils of their ways?
And what about the treatment of those who drive cars, travel in buses and trains, heat and purify their houses etc etc.
Are you prepared to give up any of these?
/// The UK air pollution is linked to 40,000 early deaths a year, asthma alone costs the NHS an estimated £1bn a year. ///
http://
/// There are people receiving treatment for cancers who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish and live on KFC. ///
In your World what should we do with these people, let them die for the evils of their ways?
And what about the treatment of those who drive cars, travel in buses and trains, heat and purify their houses etc etc.
Are you prepared to give up any of these?
/// The UK air pollution is linked to 40,000 early deaths a year, asthma alone costs the NHS an estimated £1bn a year. ///
http://
AOG
Couldn't you argue that the NHS could easily fund hip operations etc, if they looked at chargebacks for preventable disease?
IVF and gender reassignment surgery are 'easy targets' and I suggest that both are a drop in the ocean compared to what the NHS has to spend to treat those who have chosen to ruin their health with fags and booze.
Couldn't you argue that the NHS could easily fund hip operations etc, if they looked at chargebacks for preventable disease?
IVF and gender reassignment surgery are 'easy targets' and I suggest that both are a drop in the ocean compared to what the NHS has to spend to treat those who have chosen to ruin their health with fags and booze.
chiarscuro makes a very good point.
sp. The cost of IVF and sex change ops may well be a drop in the ocean, but they are not illnesses that need treatment.
How do you decide if an illness was preventable?
Is someone who smokes and has breast cancer responsible for their illness?
Someone with testicular cancer who drinks?
And if someone has injured themselves whilst skiing, rock climbing, or some other such activity, would that be classed as preventable?
The NHS is for people who need treatment for a genuine medical condition regardless of how that condition came about or how serious it is, not for people that can’t accept that sometimes nature deals a lousy hand.
sp. The cost of IVF and sex change ops may well be a drop in the ocean, but they are not illnesses that need treatment.
How do you decide if an illness was preventable?
Is someone who smokes and has breast cancer responsible for their illness?
Someone with testicular cancer who drinks?
And if someone has injured themselves whilst skiing, rock climbing, or some other such activity, would that be classed as preventable?
The NHS is for people who need treatment for a genuine medical condition regardless of how that condition came about or how serious it is, not for people that can’t accept that sometimes nature deals a lousy hand.
bigbad
IVF and gender reassignment operations are health matters. They correct health issues. The first corrects issues arising from infertility, and the second from gender dysphoria.
Both conditions are illnesses because they negatively affect the patients' quality of life.
naomi24 - all gender reassignment operations are extreme. They are not carried out on a whim.
Just like all liver heart transplant operations are extreme cases.
IVF and gender reassignment operations are health matters. They correct health issues. The first corrects issues arising from infertility, and the second from gender dysphoria.
Both conditions are illnesses because they negatively affect the patients' quality of life.
naomi24 - all gender reassignment operations are extreme. They are not carried out on a whim.
Just like all liver heart transplant operations are extreme cases.
sp.
Gender dysphoria - you can dress it up in as many pc words as you like, but a tranny is a tranny, and NHS money should not be wasted on a deviant who just happens to believe they have the wrong sexual organs.
And infertility is an unfortunate fact of life for some people, but there are children crying out to be adopted.
If these things “negatively affect the patients’ quality of life” then it’s because these ‘patients’ let it.
If they choose to spend their lives with a “woe is me” attitude instead of accepting things the way they are, (or paying for private treatment) then they need to get a grip and get on with life as it is, not life as they want it to be.
Perhaps they could visit a hospice and see how well off they really are!
Gender dysphoria - you can dress it up in as many pc words as you like, but a tranny is a tranny, and NHS money should not be wasted on a deviant who just happens to believe they have the wrong sexual organs.
And infertility is an unfortunate fact of life for some people, but there are children crying out to be adopted.
If these things “negatively affect the patients’ quality of life” then it’s because these ‘patients’ let it.
If they choose to spend their lives with a “woe is me” attitude instead of accepting things the way they are, (or paying for private treatment) then they need to get a grip and get on with life as it is, not life as they want it to be.
Perhaps they could visit a hospice and see how well off they really are!
I can understand people objecting to treatments funded by the NHS because they reckon it should be lower priority than life-prolonging treatments. What bothers me the most about this is that NHS funding is a convenient place to hide moral evaluations of the treatment in question. Bigbad's post typifies this attitude in spades, with that incredibly dismissive rant against "trannies", "deviants", and more generally anyone who apparently has the slightest negative attitude about being in the heartbreaking position of being unable to have children of your own. It shouldn't be countenanced. The NHS, whatever else it is, should not be a tool for imposing a particular set of moral values on society other than the basic principle that "if you need medical treatment, it should be freely available to you at the point of use".
Clearly the realities of limited funding dictate that for certain conditions either a) more money will have to go the NHS to fund treatment for such conditions, or b) the patients involved may have to contribute some small sum to the cost, or c) the treatment is simply unaffordable and private healthcare is the way to go.
The problem with relying on private healthcare, though, is that it's not like only rich people have what is a real condition, and saying to those without money that "well tough, we don't care enough about your mental health to do anything about it" is equally unacceptable. So that probably leaves a) or b), and since we already have to pay some level of small contributions for certain NHS care I don't see why (b) can't be extended a little, especially for treatments that aren't immediately life-threatening.
Whatever the answer, leave the moral judgments out of it.
Clearly the realities of limited funding dictate that for certain conditions either a) more money will have to go the NHS to fund treatment for such conditions, or b) the patients involved may have to contribute some small sum to the cost, or c) the treatment is simply unaffordable and private healthcare is the way to go.
The problem with relying on private healthcare, though, is that it's not like only rich people have what is a real condition, and saying to those without money that "well tough, we don't care enough about your mental health to do anything about it" is equally unacceptable. So that probably leaves a) or b), and since we already have to pay some level of small contributions for certain NHS care I don't see why (b) can't be extended a little, especially for treatments that aren't immediately life-threatening.
Whatever the answer, leave the moral judgments out of it.
Well now, Jim.
I am as entitled to an opinion as anyone else is, and if I find certain members of society objectionable, then that is my right, and I feel that when someone has a ‘preference’ that deviates too far from the norm, then that practice should be kept in the privacy of ones own home.
I doubt that it is a coincidence that when a topic such as this is posted, that it is AB’s gay and trans(insert relevant suffix here) posters who agree with these issues and appear to think they should be encouraged, even when children are involved. (There was a thread ages ago about asking parents whose children were starting school to tick a box relating to gender. I don’t have the time to look for it now).
I am as entitled to an opinion as anyone else is, and if I find certain members of society objectionable, then that is my right, and I feel that when someone has a ‘preference’ that deviates too far from the norm, then that practice should be kept in the privacy of ones own home.
I doubt that it is a coincidence that when a topic such as this is posted, that it is AB’s gay and trans(insert relevant suffix here) posters who agree with these issues and appear to think they should be encouraged, even when children are involved. (There was a thread ages ago about asking parents whose children were starting school to tick a box relating to gender. I don’t have the time to look for it now).
//Both conditions are illnesses because they negatively affect the patients' quality of life. //
SP, I disagree most strongly with your assertion that "negatively affect the patient's quality of life" is equal to and synonymous with "Illness".
Autism (for example) negatively affects the lives of those who have to live with it. but it most definitely IS NOT an illness.
SP, I disagree most strongly with your assertion that "negatively affect the patient's quality of life" is equal to and synonymous with "Illness".
Autism (for example) negatively affects the lives of those who have to live with it. but it most definitely IS NOT an illness.
Of course you're entitled to an opinion. At no point did I say or imply otherwise. It's just that the NHS shouldn't be a vehicle to impose that opinion -- and opinions can, and should, be challenged.
You're slightly misremembering the school box-ticking exercise, I think, as in the first place it was optional and in the second place it wasn't about encouragement but support. And what's wrong with that? It may be difficult to grasp this but sexuality and gender alignment are not choices but an innate part of the sense of self -- hence any child who is different deserves support, which isn't the same as active and perhaps even forceful encouragement. At least one member of this site when younger has described in the past how she briefly wanted to be a boy, but has since grown out of that. And she wouldn't be isolated in that experience either. On occasion gender misalignment may indeed be "just a phase", and taking any child who wants to be the opposite gender and instantly forcing them into that role wholeheartedly can be as damaging as ignoring it. The middle ground of support, though -- how can anyone have a problem with it? Because as often as not it's real, and deserves respect.
I'll try to find the thread in question for you -- but later, as I'm off out for the day.
You're slightly misremembering the school box-ticking exercise, I think, as in the first place it was optional and in the second place it wasn't about encouragement but support. And what's wrong with that? It may be difficult to grasp this but sexuality and gender alignment are not choices but an innate part of the sense of self -- hence any child who is different deserves support, which isn't the same as active and perhaps even forceful encouragement. At least one member of this site when younger has described in the past how she briefly wanted to be a boy, but has since grown out of that. And she wouldn't be isolated in that experience either. On occasion gender misalignment may indeed be "just a phase", and taking any child who wants to be the opposite gender and instantly forcing them into that role wholeheartedly can be as damaging as ignoring it. The middle ground of support, though -- how can anyone have a problem with it? Because as often as not it's real, and deserves respect.
I'll try to find the thread in question for you -- but later, as I'm off out for the day.
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