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Vote Rigging
Isn't this scandalous? and exactly what Nigel Farage (and I !) have been saying, now it's official;
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If the police are tipped off they should investigate.
But proving ID might be a pain. How awful for everyone to have to find house bills, or worse photo ID when you may not have any, and have them scrutinised (as if those officiating were expert enough to spot fakes) just to vote. Is this another attemp to inflict ID cards on all ? It would drop the percentage of voting citizens to the floor. Few enough find someone worth voting for as it is.
But proving ID might be a pain. How awful for everyone to have to find house bills, or worse photo ID when you may not have any, and have them scrutinised (as if those officiating were expert enough to spot fakes) just to vote. Is this another attemp to inflict ID cards on all ? It would drop the percentage of voting citizens to the floor. Few enough find someone worth voting for as it is.
OG. // Is this another attempt to inflict ID cards on all ?//
I don't think the inquiry was undertaken for that reason but I never understand why they are not compulsory in the UK, it seems to me a sensible thing to do and other countries have no problems with ID; it certainly makes police work more effective.
I don't think the inquiry was undertaken for that reason but I never understand why they are not compulsory in the UK, it seems to me a sensible thing to do and other countries have no problems with ID; it certainly makes police work more effective.
"OK, let us allow the Muslim communities to rig as much as they like then."
"If the police are tipped off they should investigate. "
Khan, yes you expressed that opinion before. I restate that I do not think the citizen should prove to the State they should be accepted as existing and have to own and carry around proof; whereas the State should continually prove they are acting in the interest of the citizen. It is State intrusion too far. Are it is also the personal data involved that is worrying too, but that is all a different subject I guess.
Does anyone know how large/effective this alleged rigging is ? Is there evidence it has changed any outcome ? It needs to be tackled but how much of a priority is it ?
"If the police are tipped off they should investigate. "
Khan, yes you expressed that opinion before. I restate that I do not think the citizen should prove to the State they should be accepted as existing and have to own and carry around proof; whereas the State should continually prove they are acting in the interest of the citizen. It is State intrusion too far. Are it is also the personal data involved that is worrying too, but that is all a different subject I guess.
Does anyone know how large/effective this alleged rigging is ? Is there evidence it has changed any outcome ? It needs to be tackled but how much of a priority is it ?
Obviously Police data isn't going to represent the whole picture, but nevertheless in the entirety of 2015 there were a total of 481 cases of alleged electoral fraud in one form or another, of which about 160 related to voting itself or to voter registration. Even most of *those* cases tended to lead to no prosecution either due to lack of evidence, or because the allegation was false, or because a caution is deemed sufficient. The remaining 300-odd cases are related to minor campaign offences such as including the name and address of the printing company on election pamphlets or making false statements.
So, in summary, there were around 150-odd alleged cases of voting fraud in one form or another across 2015. Even assuming this represents only around 1% or so of the total fraud, that bumps things up to around 10,000 possible cases. And that's probably an overestimate. For comparison, in 2015 there were over 50 million votes counted in all elections. The scale of electoral fraud just doesn't register.
This is not to say that electoral fraud is a problem that can, and should, be ignored -- but there is simply no evidence to justify changing policies to make the voting procedure harder for the millions and millions of people who neither abuse the system nor have any intention of doing so. Meanwhile, postal voting helps to widen access to those people who for one reason or another are not able to make it to their local polling station on the day, and there's no justification for ditching it either.
So, in summary, there were around 150-odd alleged cases of voting fraud in one form or another across 2015. Even assuming this represents only around 1% or so of the total fraud, that bumps things up to around 10,000 possible cases. And that's probably an overestimate. For comparison, in 2015 there were over 50 million votes counted in all elections. The scale of electoral fraud just doesn't register.
This is not to say that electoral fraud is a problem that can, and should, be ignored -- but there is simply no evidence to justify changing policies to make the voting procedure harder for the millions and millions of people who neither abuse the system nor have any intention of doing so. Meanwhile, postal voting helps to widen access to those people who for one reason or another are not able to make it to their local polling station on the day, and there's no justification for ditching it either.
Sorry, just for clarification I misunderstood the offence about printing -- in fact you're supposed to include the name of the printer/ publisher/ promoter on any campaign material, not suppress it.
The relevant document for my data can be found at http://
The relevant document for my data can be found at http://
OG;//Does anyone know how large/effective this alleged rigging is ? Is there evidence it has changed any outcome ?//
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Nothing new all part and parcel of their culture.
/// The move comes amid findings that ''almost all'' the cases of large-scale electoral fraud in England since 2000 have occurred in areas with large Pakistani or Bangladeshi communities. ///
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/// The move comes amid findings that ''almost all'' the cases of large-scale electoral fraud in England since 2000 have occurred in areas with large Pakistani or Bangladeshi communities. ///
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jim // a random allegation by the leader of a political party that isn't supported by his own party//
That isn't true;
" Mr Bickley [the UKIP candidate] claimed the postal voting system was "not fit for democracy right now", while Ukip's deputy leader Paul Nuttall said postal votes had "distorted the result" amid claims Labour had focused on the Asian community with an alleged surge in postal ballots on Thursday.
Mr Nuttall said: "We should go back to the old system where you had to give a good reason why you can't get off your backside and go down to a polling booth. That would make it fair again. That would make polling day actually mean something."
So the candidate, the leader and the deputy leader of UKIP, plus everyone I know connected, knew it was won by devious means. Farage at the time said that votes were being delivered to the polling stations in box fulls
That isn't true;
" Mr Bickley [the UKIP candidate] claimed the postal voting system was "not fit for democracy right now", while Ukip's deputy leader Paul Nuttall said postal votes had "distorted the result" amid claims Labour had focused on the Asian community with an alleged surge in postal ballots on Thursday.
Mr Nuttall said: "We should go back to the old system where you had to give a good reason why you can't get off your backside and go down to a polling booth. That would make it fair again. That would make polling day actually mean something."
So the candidate, the leader and the deputy leader of UKIP, plus everyone I know connected, knew it was won by devious means. Farage at the time said that votes were being delivered to the polling stations in box fulls
One of the most salient points made by Mr Pickles is the inaction by the police despite overwhelming evidence to support charges of electoral malpractice. In the Lutfur Rahman affair widespread electoral malpractice was suspected and the police were asked to investigate. Following a cursory investigation they found no evidence to support the allegations.
It fell to four residents to bring a petition before the Election Commission. They had to risk considerable sums of their own money to bring the matter to court. The election commissioner, Mr Richard Mawrey QC, produced a 200 page judgement (which I have read in full) following his in depth examination of the election which saw Mr Rahman returned as elected mayor of Tower Hamlets in2014. He described the situation in Tower Hamlets as “alarming” describing widespread electoral malpractice. This included “ghost” voters, “treating” in return for votes, spiritual influence, intimidation at polling stations and “harvesting” of postal voting forms to be completed and returned en masse. The election was declared void, Mr Rahman was disqualified from standing for office for five years and ordered to pay the full costs of the enquiry.
So widespread and serious was the malpractice that it seems incredible that the police found no evidence to support a wider investigation and one can only assume that either they were inept or there was some other reason why their findings differed so greatly from those of Mr Mawrey.
It fell to four residents to bring a petition before the Election Commission. They had to risk considerable sums of their own money to bring the matter to court. The election commissioner, Mr Richard Mawrey QC, produced a 200 page judgement (which I have read in full) following his in depth examination of the election which saw Mr Rahman returned as elected mayor of Tower Hamlets in2014. He described the situation in Tower Hamlets as “alarming” describing widespread electoral malpractice. This included “ghost” voters, “treating” in return for votes, spiritual influence, intimidation at polling stations and “harvesting” of postal voting forms to be completed and returned en masse. The election was declared void, Mr Rahman was disqualified from standing for office for five years and ordered to pay the full costs of the enquiry.
So widespread and serious was the malpractice that it seems incredible that the police found no evidence to support a wider investigation and one can only assume that either they were inept or there was some other reason why their findings differed so greatly from those of Mr Mawrey.
I have been expressing all this, loudly, for over 20 years (Keighley and Bradford area) and had all but given up. Of course it is corrupt where there are Bangladeshi and Pakistani entrenched communities. That is what they do.
Re. voting in future. I would accept having to show my passport or driving licence. I think there has to be some sort of photo-identification. Further, I would accept a stamp on my hand (which would last at least 48 hours) to prove that I had voted once and could not, therefore, vote again. I don't like all this, but it is necessary.
Postal votes should be severely restricted, as they used to be. Hospitals could have a responsible person to check and collect them. The only excuse for not voting face to face would be illness or change of address. Ex-pats. could have their vote verified by the local authority - but they wouldn't get a vote unless they had done all the paperwork anyway.
Haven't read any other posts as yet. Will do, that's how I feel at the moment.
Re. voting in future. I would accept having to show my passport or driving licence. I think there has to be some sort of photo-identification. Further, I would accept a stamp on my hand (which would last at least 48 hours) to prove that I had voted once and could not, therefore, vote again. I don't like all this, but it is necessary.
Postal votes should be severely restricted, as they used to be. Hospitals could have a responsible person to check and collect them. The only excuse for not voting face to face would be illness or change of address. Ex-pats. could have their vote verified by the local authority - but they wouldn't get a vote unless they had done all the paperwork anyway.
Haven't read any other posts as yet. Will do, that's how I feel at the moment.
Modern politicians have little understanding of the 'Arab mentality' as some of their predecessors (and my Dad) did, an example received today;
Hamas: Vote for us or burn in hell
by Khaled Abu Toameh • August 12, 2016 at 5:00 am
Abbas decided to hold local and municipal elections because his advisors convinced him that Hamas would boycott the vote, according to senior Fatah official Husam Khader.
The first sign of Hamas's frightening platform emerged when one of its top muftis, Yunis Al-Astal, issued a fatwa banning Palestinians from voting for any other party other than Hamas. "Any person, male or female, who votes for a party other than Hamas will be considered an infidel and apostate and his or her repentance will not be accepted even if they fasted or prayed or performed the hajj [pilgrimage] to Mecca," the mufti ruled.
This Hamas tactic has worked in the past. In the previous parliamentary election, Hamas used the same propaganda to brainwash and scare Palestinian voters.
By calling the election and allowing Hamas to participate, Abbas is digging his own grave, and presiding over the burial of any so-called peace process with Israel.
Hamas: Vote for us or burn in hell
by Khaled Abu Toameh • August 12, 2016 at 5:00 am
Abbas decided to hold local and municipal elections because his advisors convinced him that Hamas would boycott the vote, according to senior Fatah official Husam Khader.
The first sign of Hamas's frightening platform emerged when one of its top muftis, Yunis Al-Astal, issued a fatwa banning Palestinians from voting for any other party other than Hamas. "Any person, male or female, who votes for a party other than Hamas will be considered an infidel and apostate and his or her repentance will not be accepted even if they fasted or prayed or performed the hajj [pilgrimage] to Mecca," the mufti ruled.
This Hamas tactic has worked in the past. In the previous parliamentary election, Hamas used the same propaganda to brainwash and scare Palestinian voters.
By calling the election and allowing Hamas to participate, Abbas is digging his own grave, and presiding over the burial of any so-called peace process with Israel.
