Hinkley Point: Uk Expected To Approve Nuclear Plant Deal

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37369786

At last, Mrs May appears to have made her mind up.

[Gromit]

Yes.
The PFI deal to beat all PFI deals.
PFI is incredibly poor value for money for the taxpayer.
This will be a stone around the neck for future generations. They will probably despise us for doing this.

[douglas9401]

Ah, the French and the Chinese, straight shooters both.
What could possibly go wrong?

[mikey4444]

We desperately need new the electricity capability, and we can't build a nuclear power station ourselves apparently, so what choice do we have ?

But we don't start thinking about this issue seriously, we are going to come home one winters evening, in the near future, switch the light on and nothing will happen.

There may be concessions built into this agreement....details in a few days I expect.

[Gromit]

We buy electricity from the French anyway.
We should let them build their Nuclear plant in France, and we will buy the energy produced from it.

Having the plant on the Bristol Channel instead of the other side of the English Channel

1. Won't make the energy any cheaper
2. Won't be good for the country (the plant is French anyway)
3. Won't be good for the environment
4. Won't make us anymore energy secure

Let EDF Energy build their new plant - in France.

[Old_Geezer]

I was in two minds whether to comment, especially as my knowledge on the issue is superficial (I especially ought to look up this Bradwell thing). But: it is good a decision has been made, we clearly need a nuclear power plant, and we have little other option but to go ahead.

But the more I read of this it sound like some fool agreed an appallingly one sided agreement and the real decision was whether it was worse to continue or get out.

We don't want to rely on other countries cabling power to us from them, as the switch could be slammed open at any time, not under our control.

[mikey4444]

Gromit....your suggestions at 08:53 are entirely impracticable, as OG has pointed out in his reply :::

"We don't want to rely on other countries cabling power to us from them, as the switch could be slammed open at any time, not under our control"

[Gromit]

A Chinese owned, French run facility makes us more energy secure. If the Chinese want to use this as an economic weapon they can just turn the dial down whenever they want. The UK Government would be powerless (no pun intended) to stop them. Likewise, the French can say we are going to double the price of the electricity from this facility because you are desperate for energy. We will have no option than just pay up.

[mikey4444]

Gromit....I can't foresee a situation developing in the future, when the Chinese, or the French would want to turn off the new Hinkley Point reactor.

We have lost the ability to build our own apparently, which is strange considering we invented the format in the first place. Our existing nuclear plants are now well overdue for closure. Coal is no longer a cheap enough alternative.

This plant would have been half-way built by now, if we gone ahead when we did. As it is, its going to take many years before it is on-line. Hinkley Point B will have to close in 2023, and probably earlier. Most of our plants are now rapidly ageing.

So, what is the alternative to new nuclear generating plants in the UK ?

[Gromit]

We haven't lost the ability to build and run these facilities (Hinkley point will be built by a British workforce, and run by British managers). We have lost the will to finance them because privatisation is god.

Our energy sucurity for generations should be financed by the country, not by Communist China. If it is that important, the Government should raise the money. It would probably be less £billions that saving a incompetent bank.

[mikey4444]

Gromit...the we appear to agree on that point, at least. But there appears to be no political will to finance new capital project in Britain these days, and that is not a Party-political point. This new power station will provide many thousands of jobs, in an economic black spot.

There has been another project, not far away, that can't get off the air, because nobody is willing to cough up the money :::

http://www.tidallagoonswanseabay.com/

[beegeebee]

Why bother, simply build the Severn Barrage in a shorter time frame, at less cost and with a longer life span! The Victorian's would have simply got on with the job without further ado!

[Gromit]

Mikey,

March 2016
// Tomorrow two more of the country's remaining coal-fired power stations, Eggborough in Yorkshire and Fiddlers Ferry plant in Cheshire, will close their doors. They are the latest in a spate of closures affecting ageing coal-fired plants that have delighted environmentalists and sparked concerns among energy industry insiders in equal measure.

Last week, the Longannet coal power plant in Scotland and Ferrybridge plant in Yorkshire both closed, while later this spring Rugely power plant in Staffordshire is scheduled to shut down. Together this wave of closures removes 8.4GW of generating capacity from the UK electricity system, and this at a time when winter capacity margins are at some of the tightest levels they have ever been. //

The NEED for Hinkley Point B is an entirely manufactured situation. We are deliberately closing electricity generating stations on a large scale leaving a gaping hole in our ability to keep the lights on*. Then they turn around and say "only clean green nuclear power can save us" .

* In terms of energy security, we have flipped from being self sufficient in supplying our own coal for making electricity, to being wholly dependent on foreigners including Russia for our power stations.

[Gromit]

Well fancy that. UK and Germany energy costs during the heatwave:

Germany
// Strong solar production and lower electricity consumption weighed on European prompt power prices on Thursday despite persistent hot weather that typically boosts air conditioning demand and depresses wind output.
The region has seen daily 24-hour temperatures in excess of 22 degrees Celsius in France and about 19 degrees in Germany, and, according to Thomson Reuters data, is heading for weekly averages of 21.5 and 18.5 respectively next week.
German baseload power for Friday delivery fell 1.2 euros to 31 euros ($34.53) a megawatt hour (MWh) while the equivalent French contract dropped 2.7 euros to 36.5 euros/MWh. //

UK
// Prices in the UK’s electricity market have surged to their highest September levels since the recession as temperatures soar past 67-year highs, forcing Britain’s air-conditioning units to work harder against the unseasonal heat.
The wholesale market price for electricity rose to €69.47 a megawatt-hour on Tuesday, hit €75.35 a megawatt-hour for peak demand periods, surpassing prices usually reserved for dark mid-winter months when heating and lighting demand surges to annual peaks.
Energy market experts at pricing agency Icis said the price is the highest seen in three and a half years, providing “an early test” for National Grid, which is tasked with meeting Britain’s energy demand despite record low capacity margins. //

Deliberate under capacity is causing shortages and price hikes in the UK.

[Old_Geezer]

Won't barriers constitute a problem for shipping & boats ?

Unconvinced, square meter for square meter, they'd contribute as much as a nuclear power station anyway.

Problem is probably too many anti-nuclear groups swaying the easily led in parliament for years.

[mikey4444]

OG....the issue of allowing ships to pass up and down the Severn Estuary is one of the main reason why a Barrage would be so expensive.

However, if you study the plans for the Swansea Tidal Lagoon, you will see that locks would not be required. These lagoons could easily be repeated at other points as well as Swansea. They take much less time to construct than a full barrage and very much less than a nuclear power plant

But the central issue here is our Governments, of whatever political hue, are just not prepared to spend the money, despite the long-term benefit of a scheme, and the massive job opportunities that would result.

In the 1960's, I lived very close to Hinkley Point A and B, and they were very much appreciated for the jobs that entailed in their construction.

Shortermism and a lack of vision has now become a British disease.

[Old_Geezer]

I wasn't that far away from Oldbury. TBH it hadn't clicked that it was now retired. I recall going on a tour around it.

[mikey4444]

OG...Berkeley is disused now as well. Hinkley Point A stopped in 2000.

Here is a link to Britain's now closed nukes ::

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Retired

Those golden years of the 50's and 60's are long behind us now.

[jno]

the Bradwell plant sounds like a sweet deal. China gets to build its own nuclear reactor in Essex - Cinese design, Chinese labour, no British involvement.

I wonder whether Beijing would approve of a British reactor in Shanghai?

[-Talbot-]

Strange how we are phasing out coal fired power stations and Germany are building more.

[Gromit]

The ideal is to have a mix of fuels and not be overly dependent on any one source.