News1 min ago
Allardyce - Entrapment?
94 Answers
As the shock waves settle on Mr Allardyce's activities, and the results, he, and several other media and football figures are talking about 'entrapment' by The Telegraph - as though he is somehow an innocent victim of skulduggery.
My view is that he would not have been 'caught' if he was behaving properly, and the public interest justifies the methods used - and he would save some dignity if he kept quiet and let everything take its course.
What do you think?
My view is that he would not have been 'caught' if he was behaving properly, and the public interest justifies the methods used - and he would save some dignity if he kept quiet and let everything take its course.
What do you think?
Answers
I have no sympathy whatsoever for Mr Allardyce. Perhaps his Houdini act saving Sunderland from relegation has gone to his big head (a club that was reeling from the Johnson affair). He states that it was his 'dream job'. Entrapment or not, a person in his privileged position has to be whiter than white and lead by example in ethics, discipline, motivation and...
13:42 Thu 29th Sep 2016
RandyMarsh - //You are using language that no one else is.
No one else is saying Sam is corrupt. No one else is saying he is bleating. //
Do you mean on here, or in the wider world? I am sure you or I could find a media report that makes references to both.
But if you read back, you will see that I have not said that Mr Allardyce is corrupt.
No one else is saying Sam is corrupt. No one else is saying he is bleating. //
Do you mean on here, or in the wider world? I am sure you or I could find a media report that makes references to both.
But if you read back, you will see that I have not said that Mr Allardyce is corrupt.
RandyMarsh - //Totally Mick but they way he has been hung out to dry you would think he has denied us a hospital. //
'Hung out to dry' - is using language that no-one else is using!
Let's get a little perspective here - Mr Allardyce is a long-serving successful top-grade football manager. He is no stranger to the pressure of the media, and life in the public eye, so I hardly think that having to bolt abroad out of the way can be construed as 'being hung out to dry'!
To me, you are 'hung out to dry' if you are being accused of something which you haven't done.
No-one - including Mr Allardyce, is trying to plead his innocence in this situation.
'Hung out to dry' - is using language that no-one else is using!
Let's get a little perspective here - Mr Allardyce is a long-serving successful top-grade football manager. He is no stranger to the pressure of the media, and life in the public eye, so I hardly think that having to bolt abroad out of the way can be construed as 'being hung out to dry'!
To me, you are 'hung out to dry' if you are being accused of something which you haven't done.
No-one - including Mr Allardyce, is trying to plead his innocence in this situation.
There for the Grace of God.......etc.
Entrapment, "sting"..."set up"....nasty business..underhand ...sly....but that is journalism...love it or hate it. The means justifies the end? No, on a personal level it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
If offered £400, 000 for a lecture/talk in the Far East would i take it whatever my salary. would i take it?....."when does my fight depart." Nothing illegal surely.
Artisans paid in cash ( almost certainly not declared to the Tax man) that is a "bung" isn't it? It is all a matter of relativity.
By that definition, I have taken a bung ..dishonest ? yes but almost everyone would fall into this category. Immoral? yes...only if you are found out.
Criticisms of Hodgson and his side kick.....not nice....but it happens ...please see posts on AB particularly in News for personal insults.
Yes.....I suppose he should resign or even be sacked.....but in my opinion it is no big deal.
Entrapment, "sting"..."set up"....nasty business..underhand ...sly....but that is journalism...love it or hate it. The means justifies the end? No, on a personal level it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
If offered £400, 000 for a lecture/talk in the Far East would i take it whatever my salary. would i take it?....."when does my fight depart." Nothing illegal surely.
Artisans paid in cash ( almost certainly not declared to the Tax man) that is a "bung" isn't it? It is all a matter of relativity.
By that definition, I have taken a bung ..dishonest ? yes but almost everyone would fall into this category. Immoral? yes...only if you are found out.
Criticisms of Hodgson and his side kick.....not nice....but it happens ...please see posts on AB particularly in News for personal insults.
Yes.....I suppose he should resign or even be sacked.....but in my opinion it is no big deal.
Sqad sums it up perfectly, ''There for the Grace of God etc etc'' ......... my feeling is this, 'He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone', i'm not a lover of Big Sam and if someone dangled a big carrot under my nose, £400,000 worth of carrots, then i'd be on the first plane out of here, the same as 99% of the English population!
Sqad - //If offered £400, 000 for a lecture/talk in the Far East would i take it whatever my salary. would i take it?....."when does my fight depart." Nothing illegal surely. //
Illegal - probably not, but discussing a deal which is only offered to you on the basis that you are the England manager, and you haven't even met the team yet, so new is your contract, is not wise, and as an experienced manager, Mr Allardyce should certainly have known better. in his defence, he did say he would need to run it past the FA, but that was more of an afterthought.
// Artisans paid in cash ( almost certainly not declared to the Tax man) that is a "bung" isn't it? It is all a matter of relativity. //
No, that's the black economy, something entirely different, and it is not comparable, so it is not a matter of relativity.
//By that definition, I have taken a bung ..dishonest ? yes but almost everyone would fall into this category. Immoral? yes...only if you are found out. //
No you have not 'taken a bung'. The phrase is universally accepted as talking a bribe - cash payment for an illegal action, once again the two scenarios do not match up.
//Criticisms of Hodgson and his side kick.....not nice....but it happens ...please see posts on AB particularly in News for personal insults. //
I can, and have been somewhat insulting, and certainly insulted (!) within the auspices of the Answerbank, but you would find me being far more circumspect if I was the highest paid manager in international football - and far more litigious were I on the receiving end!
//Yes.....I suppose he should resign or even be sacked.....but in my opinion it is no big deal. //
In my opinion also, but in the opinion of the millions who follow football, is it a very big deal, hence the press interest, and the investigations.
Illegal - probably not, but discussing a deal which is only offered to you on the basis that you are the England manager, and you haven't even met the team yet, so new is your contract, is not wise, and as an experienced manager, Mr Allardyce should certainly have known better. in his defence, he did say he would need to run it past the FA, but that was more of an afterthought.
// Artisans paid in cash ( almost certainly not declared to the Tax man) that is a "bung" isn't it? It is all a matter of relativity. //
No, that's the black economy, something entirely different, and it is not comparable, so it is not a matter of relativity.
//By that definition, I have taken a bung ..dishonest ? yes but almost everyone would fall into this category. Immoral? yes...only if you are found out. //
No you have not 'taken a bung'. The phrase is universally accepted as talking a bribe - cash payment for an illegal action, once again the two scenarios do not match up.
//Criticisms of Hodgson and his side kick.....not nice....but it happens ...please see posts on AB particularly in News for personal insults. //
I can, and have been somewhat insulting, and certainly insulted (!) within the auspices of the Answerbank, but you would find me being far more circumspect if I was the highest paid manager in international football - and far more litigious were I on the receiving end!
//Yes.....I suppose he should resign or even be sacked.....but in my opinion it is no big deal. //
In my opinion also, but in the opinion of the millions who follow football, is it a very big deal, hence the press interest, and the investigations.
saintpeter48 - //Sqad sums it up perfectly, ''There for the Grace of God etc etc'' ......... my feeling is this, 'He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone', //
If you mean accepting an under-the-table payment for something my bosses have not, and may not sanction, while being in the most high-profile job in football, then I have my stone ready, and will cast it whenever you like!
// i'm not a lover of Big Sam and if someone dangled a big carrot under my nose, £400,000 worth of carrots, then i'd be on the first plane out of here, the same as 99% of the English population! //
I disagree. Your sweeping assumption that 99% of the population are avaricious enough to have their integrity bought for six figures is to my mind seriously wide of the mark.
I would not accept it, for one, and I am sure the majority would agree with me.
If you mean accepting an under-the-table payment for something my bosses have not, and may not sanction, while being in the most high-profile job in football, then I have my stone ready, and will cast it whenever you like!
// i'm not a lover of Big Sam and if someone dangled a big carrot under my nose, £400,000 worth of carrots, then i'd be on the first plane out of here, the same as 99% of the English population! //
I disagree. Your sweeping assumption that 99% of the population are avaricious enough to have their integrity bought for six figures is to my mind seriously wide of the mark.
I would not accept it, for one, and I am sure the majority would agree with me.
"Corruption is insidious in society, it's no use turning a blind eye because sport is not a matter of national security.
If we accept that this is OK because it's a football manager, how long before we accept it when it's an MP, or a member of the security services?
Corruption does not belong in a civilised society."
Which football manager are you talking about?
If we accept that this is OK because it's a football manager, how long before we accept it when it's an MP, or a member of the security services?
Corruption does not belong in a civilised society."
Which football manager are you talking about?
I think you have to accept, Andy, that the beautiful game is beyond reproach, and there are those in the UK - including on this forum - who will blindly defend footballers even after they've been convicted of serious offences and subsequently sent down. Luke McCormick. Lee Hughes. Adam Johnson. Gavin Grant. etc etc.
what do footballers actually have to descend to before they are universally criticised?
what do footballers actually have to descend to before they are universally criticised?
Randymarsh - //"Corruption is insidious in society, it's no use turning a blind eye because sport is not a matter of national security.
If we accept that this is OK because it's a football manager, how long before we accept it when it's an MP, or a member of the security services?
Corruption does not belong in a civilised society."
Which football manager are you talking about? //
Take your pick - there are numerous documented cases of football managers taking money for illegal purposes.
If we accept that this is OK because it's a football manager, how long before we accept it when it's an MP, or a member of the security services?
Corruption does not belong in a civilised society."
Which football manager are you talking about? //
Take your pick - there are numerous documented cases of football managers taking money for illegal purposes.
mushroom25 - //I think you have to accept, Andy, that the beautiful game is beyond reproach, and there are those in the UK - including on this forum - who will blindly defend footballers even after they've been convicted of serious offences and subsequently sent down. Luke McCormick. Lee Hughes. Adam Johnson. Gavin Grant. etc etc.
what do footballers actually have to descend to before they are universally criticised? //
I take your point.
But as someone who spent a torrid two days arguing with people on here who sought to defend a pro footballer convicted for rape, and try everything in their power to blame the victim instead of him - you will not be surprised to read that I absolutely do not accept it, and never will!
I am, as is often stated, indifferent to football, but I am not and never will be indifferent to immorality.
what do footballers actually have to descend to before they are universally criticised? //
I take your point.
But as someone who spent a torrid two days arguing with people on here who sought to defend a pro footballer convicted for rape, and try everything in their power to blame the victim instead of him - you will not be surprised to read that I absolutely do not accept it, and never will!
I am, as is often stated, indifferent to football, but I am not and never will be indifferent to immorality.
Andy
"Bung",,"Black economy" call it what you will, it is still, making a "bit on the side whatever your status or expertise.
We will have to differ on that one.
\\\ which is only offered to you on the basis that you are the England manage\\
Of course.....that's obvious, one wants value for one's money, expertise, a name, a crowd puller....
Yes.....the public like like to see an important person taken to the cleaners on a moral issue.....particularly if he is rich and the media is very good at giving them their pound of flesh ( so to speak)
"Bung",,"Black economy" call it what you will, it is still, making a "bit on the side whatever your status or expertise.
We will have to differ on that one.
\\\ which is only offered to you on the basis that you are the England manage\\
Of course.....that's obvious, one wants value for one's money, expertise, a name, a crowd puller....
Yes.....the public like like to see an important person taken to the cleaners on a moral issue.....particularly if he is rich and the media is very good at giving them their pound of flesh ( so to speak)
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