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Can Trump Handle This Kind Of Discourse?
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The Constitution. Composition of the Supreme Court. Activist judges. Is Trump trapped?
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Of course if you had wanted to hear what was meant his son clarified it very clearly in the spin room after
he should have had his son stand in for him during the debate, then. He was given the chance to say he'd accept the decision of the electorate and for some reason he didn't take it. That was a mistake.
he should have had his son stand in for him during the debate, then. He was given the chance to say he'd accept the decision of the electorate and for some reason he didn't take it. That was a mistake.
Nothing is being swept under the carpet. The simple truth is that allegations of electoral fraud wildly exaggerate the scale of it. If you are going to say that some fraud exists, then of course that is sadly true, but any reasonable estimate of the scale means that it is a handful of votes out of a hundred million that are questionable. That simply doesn't register in the way that Trump is either implying or directly saying will be the case. To pretend that he can't accept the legitimate result of millions of the American people because maybe a hundred votes (and yes, that is the right scale) might be fraudulent, that is indeed a contempt for democracy.
And, as I said, if Trump seriously believed it then what happens if he wins? But, of course, in that eventuality, all complaints over the legitimacy of the protest will magically disappear on his side.
When you are saying that either the election is free and fair, or your opponent wins, then you are saying that you have no respect for the process. And you are telling your supporters the same. In the days that follow a Clinton victory, I should not be surprised if Trump back-pedalled fast, accepting the result as graciously as possible. The thing is, though, it will be too late by then. He has already told his supporters to "monitor" the election process (which is stretching the boundaries of law, anyway). Good luck telling those die-hard Trump supporters, who believe his "we are going to win!" rhetoric so passionately, and hate Clinton so much, that they cannot see that Clinton might also win legitimately -- good luck, telling these people that it's all fine now and they can accept that the election was free and fair after all, after weeks of believing that it was not. It only takes a few of these to screw things up for everyone, whatever that ends up meaning in practice.
It's a very dangerous message. In his desperation either to win, or -- more likely now -- to try and save face if he loses, Trump has flirted with all sorts of ideas he should never have countenanced. If he wins, well, we had better hope that he was just kidding with us all along and that he's actually a serious guy capable of demonstrating hitherto-unseen levels of calm and restraint. But even if he loses, the story still won't end here.
And, as I said, if Trump seriously believed it then what happens if he wins? But, of course, in that eventuality, all complaints over the legitimacy of the protest will magically disappear on his side.
When you are saying that either the election is free and fair, or your opponent wins, then you are saying that you have no respect for the process. And you are telling your supporters the same. In the days that follow a Clinton victory, I should not be surprised if Trump back-pedalled fast, accepting the result as graciously as possible. The thing is, though, it will be too late by then. He has already told his supporters to "monitor" the election process (which is stretching the boundaries of law, anyway). Good luck telling those die-hard Trump supporters, who believe his "we are going to win!" rhetoric so passionately, and hate Clinton so much, that they cannot see that Clinton might also win legitimately -- good luck, telling these people that it's all fine now and they can accept that the election was free and fair after all, after weeks of believing that it was not. It only takes a few of these to screw things up for everyone, whatever that ends up meaning in practice.
It's a very dangerous message. In his desperation either to win, or -- more likely now -- to try and save face if he loses, Trump has flirted with all sorts of ideas he should never have countenanced. If he wins, well, we had better hope that he was just kidding with us all along and that he's actually a serious guy capable of demonstrating hitherto-unseen levels of calm and restraint. But even if he loses, the story still won't end here.
Ich, do you seriously think elections in the West are rig-free?
jno, yes perhaps but too much is made about nothing. It could well be a ploy to get 'lazy' republican voters out to vote 'in their droves'
What I really dont understand is why no one is making a fuss about the lack of policy ( and that applies to both but mainly Trump). Surely that is the most important and one way of scoring good points not slandering him by saying he is the most dangerous candidate in history!
jno, yes perhaps but too much is made about nothing. It could well be a ploy to get 'lazy' republican voters out to vote 'in their droves'
What I really dont understand is why no one is making a fuss about the lack of policy ( and that applies to both but mainly Trump). Surely that is the most important and one way of scoring good points not slandering him by saying he is the most dangerous candidate in history!
jno - //He was given the chance to say he'd accept the decision of the electorate and for some reason he didn't take it.//
The reason is, the decision of the electorate is going to be not to elect him.
If he says in advance that he agrees with that - as indeed he should - then it is going to demolish his rampage about fraud and fiddling before he gets going with it.
Donald will only accept defeat if he can blame someone - anyone else.
The notion that the nation thought him unsuitable is something he will not be able to take.
The reason is, the decision of the electorate is going to be not to elect him.
If he says in advance that he agrees with that - as indeed he should - then it is going to demolish his rampage about fraud and fiddling before he gets going with it.
Donald will only accept defeat if he can blame someone - anyone else.
The notion that the nation thought him unsuitable is something he will not be able to take.
There will be a lot of questions to ask, and answer, for everyone, should Trump win. At the moment it should be essentially impossible (all indications are that he simply doesn't have the required support). So, if it happens anyway, everyone will have to take a long, ahrd look at how it was that we got here.
I should say that if Trump wins then of course it will be because he did after all command the support of enough people, so I am absolutely not questioning the legitimacy of the result. That is the key point, really -- Trump explicitly refused to see if he would accept the legitimacy or not. No other candidate has dared to do that. No matter how heated the debate, it was always understood that the election proper drew a line. This morning, for example, there was a letter being shared that was written by George Bush Senior to his victorious opponent, Bill Clinton. This after a fractious campaign, not at all helped by the presence of a successful third candidate, and there was no love lost between the candidates. But, in the letter, George Bush was full of respect and humility at the transition:
"When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago now. I know you will feel that, too. I wish great happiness here... There will be tough times ahead... [and] criticism you may not think is fair. I'm not a very good one to give advice, but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course."
It finishes with a final flourish:
"You will be OUR president when you read this note. Your success now is our country's success. I am root hard for you."
Good luck getting Trump to say that about Hillary Clinton, let alone all those who think she should be in jail, or who happily talk about assassinating her should she win.
I should say that if Trump wins then of course it will be because he did after all command the support of enough people, so I am absolutely not questioning the legitimacy of the result. That is the key point, really -- Trump explicitly refused to see if he would accept the legitimacy or not. No other candidate has dared to do that. No matter how heated the debate, it was always understood that the election proper drew a line. This morning, for example, there was a letter being shared that was written by George Bush Senior to his victorious opponent, Bill Clinton. This after a fractious campaign, not at all helped by the presence of a successful third candidate, and there was no love lost between the candidates. But, in the letter, George Bush was full of respect and humility at the transition:
"When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago now. I know you will feel that, too. I wish great happiness here... There will be tough times ahead... [and] criticism you may not think is fair. I'm not a very good one to give advice, but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course."
It finishes with a final flourish:
"You will be OUR president when you read this note. Your success now is our country's success. I am root hard for you."
Good luck getting Trump to say that about Hillary Clinton, let alone all those who think she should be in jail, or who happily talk about assassinating her should she win.
//It could well be a ploy to get 'lazy' republican voters out to vote 'in their droves'//
could be; or at least it could be that's what he thought it was. What it actually sounds like is "don't bother voting, you'll be defrauded" - meaning that if he loses he can blame it on Republicans staying home because they thought their votes would be quietly thrown in the bin.
could be; or at least it could be that's what he thought it was. What it actually sounds like is "don't bother voting, you'll be defrauded" - meaning that if he loses he can blame it on Republicans staying home because they thought their votes would be quietly thrown in the bin.
I have no knowledge if electoral fraud is widespread in America, but I am not stupid enough to believe that it doesn't go on. It certainly does in Britain, and
I can see no reason why democracy isn't being interfered with in every country of the world.
But what I am not prepared to accept, is that when it occurs in the States, it only occurs to Republican votes and not to Democrat votes as well.
Trump had one last chance last night, to abandon his constant name-calling and nastiness, and at least try to come over as a reasonable person.
He failed utterly. He constantly interrupted the Moderator, and Hilary. He seems to be incapable of speaking without waving his hands and his fingers in the air, and he shows the same inability to debate without nasty and mostly groundless attacks on pretty well everybody else, who isn't called Trump.
His running mate, Mr Spence, must be holding his head in his hands in despair, wondering why the hell he got involved with the awful ogre in the first place. Spence runs a very real risk of having to try and rescue his political career after this nasty campaign. As it stands at the moment, it looks a if he headed in the same direction as Sarah Palin.......into a wilderness of ridicule.
I can see no reason why democracy isn't being interfered with in every country of the world.
But what I am not prepared to accept, is that when it occurs in the States, it only occurs to Republican votes and not to Democrat votes as well.
Trump had one last chance last night, to abandon his constant name-calling and nastiness, and at least try to come over as a reasonable person.
He failed utterly. He constantly interrupted the Moderator, and Hilary. He seems to be incapable of speaking without waving his hands and his fingers in the air, and he shows the same inability to debate without nasty and mostly groundless attacks on pretty well everybody else, who isn't called Trump.
His running mate, Mr Spence, must be holding his head in his hands in despair, wondering why the hell he got involved with the awful ogre in the first place. Spence runs a very real risk of having to try and rescue his political career after this nasty campaign. As it stands at the moment, it looks a if he headed in the same direction as Sarah Palin.......into a wilderness of ridicule.
Which elections do you think are rigged then ymb?
We are talking US here specifically. Talk of 'sweeping things under the carpet' is meaningless unless you can give examples at least of suspicious ones. And that is Trump's tactic is it not? Wild, unsubstantiated allegations. If he thinks there is malpractice he should pursue the matter properly. He's just using it as a desperate tactic. And not for the first time, as Hillary pointed out
We are talking US here specifically. Talk of 'sweeping things under the carpet' is meaningless unless you can give examples at least of suspicious ones. And that is Trump's tactic is it not? Wild, unsubstantiated allegations. If he thinks there is malpractice he should pursue the matter properly. He's just using it as a desperate tactic. And not for the first time, as Hillary pointed out
Ichkeria.....if Trump loses, an lot of other Republicans will lose as well, and not just the reputation of the Party. They now face at least 4 years in opposition, and probably another 4 after that.
All because the Party didn't stop the Trump machine dead in its tracks earlier this spring and summer, when it had the chance.
All because the Party didn't stop the Trump machine dead in its tracks earlier this spring and summer, when it had the chance.
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