A Solution Britains Prisons & Prisoner Reoffending

[dieseldick]

from someone who has spent over 12 years in prison i firmly believe that the government should make some prisons much harder for disruptive difficult inmates on the lines of supermax in USA , show them no mercy if they are involved in gangs, drugs , espesially for peadophiles, murderers . i personally think the death sentence should be brought back for peadophiles and murderers.

for inmates who can reform and are willing to reform then dont bloody lock tham up like a dog for 24 hrs a day ( it can only end one way ) have some forms of education, give them plenty of gym , what does it cost to let prisoners into gym or yard for much longer , im confused to why this doesnt happen more in uk prisons and surely it doesnt take much manpower to control about 50 men in a locked yard , electronic gates can let them in and out with the push of a button. this is essential to de stress and lets them take their frustrations out in gym. last time i was in prison there was a basic / normal / enhanced regime in place where as a basic prisoner had no tv, a normal prisoner had a tv but not too much gym and an enhanced prisoner had tv, plenty gym and association time at night allowing inmates to work their way up from basic to enhanced so i think a good system.

[Old_Geezer]

Sounds great that there are no gangs nor drugs in US gaols.
We must learn from those who achieve their goals.

[Cloverjo]

I agree with your second paragraph, but not the first.

[douglas9401]

http://tinyurl.com/z6yquwa

[Cloverjo]

Green wellies, Baldric? I'm missing something here. :)

[Cloverjo]

Douglas, not Baldric. Sorry.

[EDDIE51]

dieseidick, USA prisons are run by private companys as commercial enterprises. They advertise for inmates and compete against each other in the same way hotels do! They can charge whatever they can get away with. The different States have to pay for their prisoners 'accommodation'
The 'supermax' jails charge more as they can take the very worst, most violent prisoners that most jails will not accept. Obviously the jails have to compete for staff as well and pay much more than UK jails to get the staff they need.
The two systems are so different that you just can't compare them.

[EDDIE51]

Here is the web site of one of the organisations that help USA jails 'maximise their earnings' by better advertising.
http://www.americanjail.org/advertising
As it says, in the USA 'Jail' is just one more product that has to be bought and sold .

[cassa333]

I do agree that a tiered system is good and we sort of have that in open prisons and the abc catagory.

Time in prison should be productive and useful for the inmates. Socialisation is a key part of life and shouldn't be taken away completely. I also agree a reward system of greater freedoms for good and reforming behaviour is probably the right way to go. Perhaps the more educational/social/reforming 'clubs' an inmate belongs to is a positive on their sheet.

However with socialisation, especially when not monitored properly, can lead to gang mentality and all that entails. Bit of a catch 22 but probably not insurmountable.

Perhaps all the maximum security prisoners and violent or disruptive ones and those not able to adapt to 'quiet' prison life should be moved.

Just because the American system is a paid for one doesn't mean we can't use it as a template. We don't have to follow the 'private' tender.

A good daily relationship with professional POs is a must. With so few POs, that are not trained in the same way as they used to be, makes it even harder to run.

[EDDIE51]

cassa, Your ideas are good but the problem is lack of staff. Very few people want to be prison staff. The hours are long time off limited,and the work is dangerous. Every day more staff leave than new staff start, it is getting worse on a daily basis. Prison staff feel unappreciated, many people regard them as little better than the prisoners they look after.

[Baldric]

///as little better than the prisoners they look after///

Speaks volumes about attitudes.

[CrapAtCryptics]

The problem is that prison is the invisible service, the NHS gets vast amounts of money but still sticks it hand out for more when it is over managed, cant collect its debts and apparently treats all and sundry with no regard for their origin. The Prison Service is not an investment any government wishes to make but they consistently forget that included in that budget are the staff many of whom are so poorly paid they have to claim top up benefits. They have one inept prisons minister after another. Experience 27.5 years mostly in high security establishments so I believe i know what I`m talking about.
No gangs or drugs in US prisons hands up anyone who believes that.

[cassa333]

Eddie my dad was a PO for 35 years. Back then they were properly trained and (admittedly) worked the system to maximum benefit.

You are right that budgets have been cut, training has been cut so there are less officers 'on the shop floor'. Goveners got more control over budgets (to save money) and apparently that was when the rot set in to save money.

Like all 'businesses' and government bodies they need adequate funding and accountable for how that is spent.

Although everywhere is tightening belts I think the general public have a view on what a prison is. Some people are Lock m up and throw away the key and how cares if they kill each other, some think that there are no criminals only misunderstood individuals and (I would like to think) the majority somewhere in the middle.

For me it should be about taking the criminal out of society for a specified time and rehabilitation. If you can't rehabilitate then your not doing half your job.

Like everything throw enough money at it and (other than getting taken for a ride) you can fix anything. Perhaps the great and the good can work out how to do it.

[TWR]

The HR has helped in giving these offenders everything they want, do you think thing will change and become like the USA? No chance.

[EDDIE51]

I have talked to prison officers and they are all really fed up and *** Off.
They see their numbers constantly dropping yet more and more people being jailed. They really do feel that the public has little or no sympathy for them and I am sure they are right. How many people think of prison officers in the same way they think of the police or other public services like the fire or ambulance service for example. They do a vital job and serve society in the same way but very rarely get credit for it.

[TWR]

Eddie, I was previously employed by the NHS in metal care, no one explained to me there was a possibility I could get belted by one of the Murders / Pedos / rapist / Flashers, they had a better life than us, who's the fool?

[dieseldick]

back to basics though ,prisons dont need a lot of funding to let out prisoners more into excercise or gym how can that require more funding ? it can only be a good thing. locking them up like animals just has a knock on effect and will only end one way in the long run , how can government not see that at least ?

same goes for unruly unreforming prisoners who come into prison frequently , hard time , basic simple food, fewer visits, no sympathy.

[cassa333]

I think you're right Eddie. Less POs with even less training. Lack of knowledge or care of what happens to out criminal class.

I knew someone once who insisted on calling the POs Prison Warders. It has less of an official sounding name, less respect and less money.

Many a day we would come home from school for lunch or tea and find a couple of lifers sitting watching the cricket eating a fried egg sandwich my mum had made. They were all very respectful.

But I digress. If there is no more money then what is available has to be spent as carefully as possible to get the maximum benefit for society as a whole.

Perhaps a points reward system. Each rehabilitation course is one point, each open university course is one point, each learn a trade course is one point, each basic literacy/maths is one point and so on. When you get to xx then you get more privileges or freedoms. I think they have some sort of rewards system but not sure what it is nowadays. But it will only get worse if the service is not better recognised.

[EDDIE51]

Cassa I agree with all you say, I have worked in a prison education dept.
But you are missing the point that all of those things take staff to organise. There are WAY too few staff , some prisons have less than 30% of the number of staff they were designed to have. It has got to the point where the job is no longer safe as was demonstrated yesterday when prison staff walked out!
I have talked to prison staff who have gone 16 weeks, 7 days a week without a day off ! I have talked to staff who had booked a Holiday months in advance only to have their leave cancelled at the last second so that they lost the holiday they had paid for, with no compensation !

[ToraToraTora]

I am happy to defer to someone with the experience diesel.

[Peter Pedant]

// Sounds great that there are no gangs nor drugs in US gaols. //
yeah i was kinda wide eyed with wonder on that one
and clearly we need to find out how they do it
( lots are private in the Land of the Free ( pun intended) - not an experiment Liz Truss ( I will make them eat crip and leave ) seems keen to repeat after G4S

I was more wide eyed to learn you had done 12 y in prison
and hope that you have made it OK out . and well done if you have

Both the ex prisoners I gave tenancies to ( for a market rent I hasten to add) are back inside ( drugs and drugs ) and I have no plans to give any others 'a chance'. [ and the police have stopped coming round]

so well done for making your way out of the vicious circle
and good luck