Put Out Elderly First

[lindapalmara]

I'm sure Foreign Aid has been discussed many times but now it is being suggested we raise Councul Tax to pay for elderly care isn't it time to look at the foreign aid to Despots and expensive "Consultants"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4027300/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Time-elderly-foreign-despots.html

The Council Tax method has at least two major flaws. First that it will raise more revenue in wealthier areas whereas in poorer areas many people don't pay Council tax and I also don't trust Councils to use use the money sells for that.

[naomi24]

chiaroscuro, I did ask for, rather than 'demand' a link, but thank you anyway. Others have already been provided.

[mikey4444]

chiaroscuro...well said at 09:43, which is the prime reason why I didn't respond immediately !

If you, Ratter and I can find these very simple links, its beyond me to see why everybody else can't. The evidence is there for all to see, even the people that would rather not face the truth.

[Kromovaracun]

No, I don't think it should be diverted.

Foreign Aid is drop in the ocean of the social care budget (which is gigantic and growing) - the money that is being spent on aid will have relatively little impact if it is diverted there, whereas it can have much more significant impact where it is, because projects in less developed countries are cheaper than year-on-year care for the elderly in a developed one. So Foreign Aid is a small amount of money that does a lot where it is, but wouldn't do much if it was moved.

The only way to solve the crisis in social care is to raise more money and to invest it properly. Either through an increase in corporation tax, income tax, or borrowing. Each has its own drawbacks. But we are not going to get the amounts needed by cutting other departments - it just isn't enough.

[naomi24]

Mikey, you're reduced to arguing by proxy. Highly amusing, you know. :o)

[mikey4444]

Kromo....good point and you are probably correct, but its easier to have a go at foreigners, than to actually sit down and find a permanent solution to our increasing difficulties withe Social Care Budget.

[naomi24]

Mikey, no one is having a go at foreigners. lindapalmara has simply asked if that money could be better spent elsewhere. You’ve yet to answer that.

[chiaroscuro]

The unpalatable truth is that we often choose not to look after our old family members in this country. This is not the case in many other countries where the elderly are loved and cared for in their childens' homes. Oh,yes, not to forget a link.....
http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/life/how-different-countries-treat-the-elderly-20839

[lindapalmara]

Kromovaracun

I don't this 9 billion pounds is a small amount of money. I'm sure Dictators can fund repairs to their palaces from other corrupt means! Charity begins at home as far as can see.

[naomi24]

chiaroscuro, if you read your own link you will see that it applies to the way in which families in other countries regard their own elderly members – and very nice it is too – but that’s a far cry from the social care we expect in this country which is what we’re actually talking about.

[vulcan42]

I find it very strange that in this country of ours we are more than happy to look after our own children we bring into the world, yet can't be bothered to look after the people who gave us life and transfer that responsibility to some low paid foreigner.

[chiaroscuro]

naomi
I can't see any inconsistency in my post, perhaps you should read it again. I'm pointing out that we dump our elderly people to be looked after by strangers and then moan when we don't provide enough money to have them cared for properly.

[anneasquith]

A pity it has now become the norm in " news" topic to respond to certain abers in a negative way rather than just debate the subject :-(

[naomi24]

chiaroscuro, I haven't said your post is inconsistent - simply that it doesn't address the question. I quite agree that in general, we, as families, don't care for our elderly as we should and I find that very sad indeed.

[lindapalmara]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4027328/DAMIAN-THOMPSON-spend-1bn-foreign-aid-consultants.html

[naomi24]

Linda, I don't think you're going to get many straight answers to your question.

[Old_Geezer]

No no no, you put the cat out first; and THEN the elderly.

I think the time has come for the Westminster government to work out why the tax collected already doesn't already cover society's needs. Past generations didn't seem to have the problems we have now.

[Old_Geezer]

Charity does indeed begin on one's home world. Can't stop there though.

No one deliberately funds despots etc. but that doesn't mean we should ignore other countries. The trick is to give in a way that one knows our small contribution is helping those it was intended to help.

[mikey4444]

OG....I think its the sheer numbers of elderly people that is the problem these days. Mortality is improving by leaps and bounds, but morbidity isn't. Which can be no surprise to anybody.

Sensible response in your 2nd post.....we should be able to do both.

[Togo]

//we dump our elderly people to be looked after by strangers//

Once the social services get involved they can put elderly people into care against the wishes of family members, and indeed do. Especially if they have assets that can be syphoned off.

[cassa333]

We might be a rich nation but we squander it on vanity aid projects the world over. We fund all manner of enterprises that have little or no effect, or perhaps just for the cameras. (No I don't have a link. There is enough read and heard on the news about aid being missapropraited or the amount we send is being doubled and spent on space/rocket exploration.).

For far too long the U.K. Has been the cash cow of many countries dictators and dodgy regimes and that has to stop. Aid should be targeted and effective not dolled out to flatter dictators or boost the ego of the giver.

Anyway back to care. It is a given nowadays that we have lost touch with family values so that we care less and less for our elderly family members (other countries will eventually catch up with us) and expect the state to do that job for us. That's the welfare state for you.

But the gap in funding is issue in this thread so yes to the OP. Cut foreign aid to the bone (fund what is truly needed) and use the residue wisely on old age care funding.

Overall I have little sympathy for private businesses that don't manage their books properly (how much profit would we find palatable to pay for elderly care?) but funding by local/national government has been cut to such an extent that it is difficult.

There is already a two tier system in the care sector. You pay yourself if you have funds or the state pays for you if you don't. As in the case of pensions perhaps the state should mandate that everyone pays into an old age care pot?