Body & Soul2 mins ago
Remainers ... Your Knight In Shining Armour.
The former prime minister will make the statement at his first big speech since the EU referendum, arguing that people were misinformed when they voted for Brexit.
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How will he keep a straight face?
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How will he keep a straight face?
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It wasn't encumber on just the remainacs to explain. The brexiteers had 50% of that responsibility, otherwise you'd have been shouting 'nonsense nonsense' from the rooftops.
The sheer fact that, day after day, we debate the intricacies on here proves that we weren't informed correctly, by politicians of any hue.
The sheer fact that, day after day, we debate the intricacies on here proves that we weren't informed correctly, by politicians of any hue.
Zacs is right, there was never any explanation coming from politicians of any persuasion because they simply didn't respect the British people enough to tell them, they thought the vote was a foregone conclusion.
B Liar was the final nail in the coffin for me, that muppet stuck his oar in I voted leave. He's a paid up member of the gravy train he'll want to take as much out of it as he can, it doesn't benefit HIM to leave, he couldn;'t care less about Britain.
B Liar was the final nail in the coffin for me, that muppet stuck his oar in I voted leave. He's a paid up member of the gravy train he'll want to take as much out of it as he can, it doesn't benefit HIM to leave, he couldn;'t care less about Britain.
It's the same with all votes and elections we find out afterwards if they were telling us the truth or just their version of it so that they get in. The things they say they are going to do on the campaign only to find out that it is not possible afterwards. But after the vote we have to accept the result as it is the will of the ones who were bothered to vote and we get on with it as it should be in this case.
By the time parliament comes to vote on Brexit who knows a) what they'll be voting on and b) what the 'people's' of will be.
If enough people could be persuaded that Brexit is wrong - and it wouldn't take a huge swing - then would that not still be 'democracy'? And politicians still want to be elected ...
Regardless of what you think of Blair that is a fact.
Trouble is the focus will be on the man not the message
If enough people could be persuaded that Brexit is wrong - and it wouldn't take a huge swing - then would that not still be 'democracy'? And politicians still want to be elected ...
Regardless of what you think of Blair that is a fact.
Trouble is the focus will be on the man not the message
Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the Brexit voters were expecting that we would be out of those "agreements". Out not renegotiating them, out and start again, you know the easy route. Up yours Delors and all that. As far as I can see the question of "renegotiation" of the conditions originally imposed on us is only coming from the Remainiacs and started off as a delaying strategy. We just say we are off, these are our terms, take it or leave it losers, there are plenty of other places to do business once the shackles are off. Another thing how come we are expected to carry on shovelling cash into the pockets of the French and German Eurocrats? We should be telling the thieving crooks that we want our money back and demanding that the accounts are handed over to our attack dog accountants for scrutiny.
I have to agree with everything that Zacs has said; the quality of the debate prior to the vote was disgraceful, from both sides; voting felt like throwing yourself off Beachy Head and just praying that someone had the foresight to rig up a safety net. A couple of points that have been made that need addressing:
Sheadman said //After a vote we decided to leave the EU. Why can't they just accept the result and get on with it as the leavers would have had to do had it been the other way around.// Would that be the deafening silence we've heard ever since the original referendum in the '70's? Euro-sceptics have been banging on about leaving for decades and finally got their way with another vote, why should the remainers now shut up and get on with it? (I agree, by the way, that we've had the vote and should abide by it, but disagree that dissenters should remain silent).
Togo said //Out not renegotiating them, out and start again, you know the easy route.// That was never my impression and wasn't one I can remember anyone promoting. As far as I can recall we always knew there would be negotiation over leaving and if anyone thought otherwise they should have listened a little harder. It's not a delaying tactic it's standard diplomacy - we committed to be in the EU and can't just "walk away" from a legally binding committment. You're continuing the Brexiteetrs fallacy that it will be raining sovreigns the moment we leave the EU, you say that there are plenty of places to do business once the shackles are off, but resolutely fail to name a single deal with good prospects. Obama told us straight that we'd be at the back of the queue, Trump has promoted us somewhat, but has also said "America First", so that'll be a great deal for us then.
As for Blair - I agree, more harm than good for the remain cause, he has no credibility at all.
Please don't lump Major in with the liar though - he's underrated as a PM and doesn't deserve that.
Sheadman said //After a vote we decided to leave the EU. Why can't they just accept the result and get on with it as the leavers would have had to do had it been the other way around.// Would that be the deafening silence we've heard ever since the original referendum in the '70's? Euro-sceptics have been banging on about leaving for decades and finally got their way with another vote, why should the remainers now shut up and get on with it? (I agree, by the way, that we've had the vote and should abide by it, but disagree that dissenters should remain silent).
Togo said //Out not renegotiating them, out and start again, you know the easy route.// That was never my impression and wasn't one I can remember anyone promoting. As far as I can recall we always knew there would be negotiation over leaving and if anyone thought otherwise they should have listened a little harder. It's not a delaying tactic it's standard diplomacy - we committed to be in the EU and can't just "walk away" from a legally binding committment. You're continuing the Brexiteetrs fallacy that it will be raining sovreigns the moment we leave the EU, you say that there are plenty of places to do business once the shackles are off, but resolutely fail to name a single deal with good prospects. Obama told us straight that we'd be at the back of the queue, Trump has promoted us somewhat, but has also said "America First", so that'll be a great deal for us then.
As for Blair - I agree, more harm than good for the remain cause, he has no credibility at all.
Please don't lump Major in with the liar though - he's underrated as a PM and doesn't deserve that.
How about all the Commonwealth countries, Japan, Korea, China, India, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. etc. Nor forgetting of course all the European vassal states that want to continue selling their goods to the UK. Not least of all the Germans themselves. For people who have very furtive and complicated minds the Remainiacs show precious little imagination in support of the UK but plenty of devious complexity if they think it is useful in preventing the will of the electorate being carried out.
I honestly can't see it - all those nations have existing trade agreements that we will be up against - not least the remaining members of the EU, and they're not likely to just "allow" us to undercut them after we've stuck two fingers up at their institution. If the UK is, as the Brexiteers seem to think, a major powerhouse the EU will be doing everything possible to make sure that they are a more attractive trading bloc than us. We may be able to get trade agreements, but I fear they won't be as favourable as you think.
I find myself agreeing with your take on the 'devious' nature of SOME (please don't lump us all in together) Remainers in attempting to delay, or even prevent, due process - we had a vote, the people spoke, we were all under the impression that the result would be adopted and I don't support individuals or MP's who now want to disregard this. Generally though I think you'd find that the vast majority of remainers want the UK to succeed, we all voted the way we did because we saw it as the best option for the country, doesn't mean that those of us who didn't get the result we wanted now want to see the UK go down the pan.
I find myself agreeing with your take on the 'devious' nature of SOME (please don't lump us all in together) Remainers in attempting to delay, or even prevent, due process - we had a vote, the people spoke, we were all under the impression that the result would be adopted and I don't support individuals or MP's who now want to disregard this. Generally though I think you'd find that the vast majority of remainers want the UK to succeed, we all voted the way we did because we saw it as the best option for the country, doesn't mean that those of us who didn't get the result we wanted now want to see the UK go down the pan.
Mothman wasn't the vote in the 70s to join the common market and not the EU where we were joining to buy and sell goods and not as it is now where we are told what we can do law wise and buy. Also from memory wasn't it the French who didn't want us in and veoted us from joining on at least 2 occasions but now they want our money they don't want us to leave.
I believe there's something in what you say Shedman - at the time the country was voting on a single economic market, plus some promises regarding security and regional development - the EU's desire to become a EuroState involving itself in domestic laws etc came later. I'll retract any tetchiness that may have crept through - although I still think we're entitled to voice our disappointment at the result (but not to attempt to disregard or amend it in any way).
Good call sir.
Good call sir.
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