Should These Women Have Even Been Allowed To Enter Court In Their Burkas?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4494956/Mother-daughter-court-terror-plot.html

/// District Judge Emma Arbuthnot had to ask both women – who appeared in burkas which covered their entire bodies and faces – to lift their veils, as their eyes were hidden by dark mesh screens. She said: ‘Miss Boular and Miss Dich, would you mind removing at least part of your veils so I can see part of your eyes?’ ///

/// Boular responded by lifting her veil for a few seconds, while her mother sat motionless and refused to expose her face throughout the preliminary hearing. ///

[pixie374]

That's exactly it, bernie. It isn't even about beliefs or religion- covering your face is not appropriate in court (or most places). At best it's disrespectful to others, at worst unhelpful with identity and communication.

[ummmm]

I also agree with Bernie.

[Barmaid]

No stripping of these garments is no more necessary than it is with anyone. Being x rayed is fine; being searched (manually, if necessary) is fine. Essentially, being made to take such steps as are *necessary* for the purpose to be carried out is all that is required. Being made to remove garments that they have a belief in wearing (whether you agree with that belief or not) for an unnecessary reason is oppressive.

[pixie374]

I wouldn't even describe it as a "garment" personally. It's a mask. And it wouldn't be oppressive as it would be the same rules for all. No brides wearing veils over their faces, no balaclavas, no paper bags over your head etc etc

[Islay]

//they should first be stripped of these garments //
Is an agressive term and does not surprise me that you would use such terms!

[anotheoldgit]

Islay

Who little Miss over-sensitive, wonders will never cease.

[Barmaid]

But isnt the same rule for all without justification oppressive in itself? Eg no brides wearing veils - I perfectly accept not in a security situation or prison cell (what sort of weddings have YOU been to Pixie?!) but gliding into a country church?

Accepted someone should remove any obsuring headgear or any other clothing for that matter for the purposes of identifying them, or ensuring national security etc, but there is a place and a time. it is what is necessary that is important.

[pixie374]

I only meant it wouldn't be appropriate to turn up at court wearing a veil over your face. What justifications would there be for allowing someone to keep their face covered in court? I can't think of any.

[Barmaid]

As long as it does not interfere with the proceedings there is no reason why it should not be allowed.
Where it may interfere with the proceedings (giving evidence or being identified) it should not be.

[andy-hughes]

Pixie - //What justifications would there be for allowing someone to keep their face covered in court? I can't think of any. //

Personal freedom, which is one of the pleasures of living in a free society.

[andy-hughes]

Barmaid - //As long as it does not interfere with the proceedings there is no reason why it should not be allowed.
Where it may interfere with the proceedings (giving evidence or being identified) it should not be. //

Absolutely.

I believe that the lady who refused to lift her veil should be charged with Contempt of Court, and as I said then, and will say again - that is exactly what it is.

[Berniecuddles2]

Exactly Andy

[Mamyalynne]

They should have complied with the Court when asked to.

[youngmafbog]

There is no way anyone should be allowed to hide their face in Court.

[New Judge]

“But in court they should not wear one who's to tell who is actually sitting there being judged could be anyone!”

That’s the case whether they are masked up or not. When a defendant appears in court and is asked his name, he replies “John Smith”. The court is expecting John Smith and all seems well. Except that nobody in the court (with the possible exception of his advocate, and even he may not know, possibly having only met “John Smith” that morning) knows what John Smith looks like.

[hereIam]

The Judge should have ordered them to remove their veils, no pussy footing about - her Court her rules.

[fender62]

some dont see our laws as valid, as it's not koranic, better question is why live in a country that you despise...i forgot freebies jihad benefits

[webbo3]

Those that are saying its ok would it be ok to wear a crash helmet or a balaclava in court as we are always being told the burka has nothing to do with islam and muslims should be treated equally.

Dave.

[fender62]

webbo3, i think the implication is by some aber's is that, religious garb should be excepted, becaue it's religious they have carte blanche
motorcycle helmets are not religious, so do not count, i say
they should be made to wear prison clothing magnolia one size fits all
overhauls whatever, religion should not come into it, your at her majestys pleasure so to speak, and not sectioned because of religious grounds, muck in like all the rest, perhaps they will get a flavor of the country they hate so much

[webbo3]

Thank you Fender, as I said the burka is nothing to do with Islam and if Muslims want to be treated equally then they should show their faces in court like everyone else.

Dave.