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Kath....benefits are mostly meant to make up for poor wages. The point under discussion is whether it is right to pay someone who lives in Central London such a pittance in the first place.

But I would be interested to know if London Weighting is paid to cleaners in Hospitals.

When I worked for BT, on loan to London during the 1980's, my colleagues were paid a lot more than me, but needed every extra penny to pay for the huge commuting cost involved in working in Town.
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Sqad....to compare our highly skilled career, with a cleaner makes no sense, although I appreciate your point !

On the minimum wage, it is unlikely that anyone could save any appreciable amount, for a happy and secure retirement.

Does anyone have an answer to my question re London Weighting ?
But mikey

"even if Hammond's pay rise was also only 1%, it will be hugely more in money terms than the cleaners at Barts."

You used a similar comparison to one that I have used......you commented that mine didn't make sense......so does yours?
Like you I see the point that you are making.
MP's pay is set by an independant body, it has little to do with this argument especially since Hammond is rich in is own right and certainly doesnt need the money.

Much as I hate the man I think he has a point here for most public sector workers outside the front line. Mini empires of management, mainly useless, have been built up since Bliar and Co started inflating the public sector. These people are overpaid and in many cases should not be employed at all.
mikey

"On the minimum wage, it is unlikely that anyone could save any appreciable amount, for a happy and secure retirement. "

You are quite correct and i am glad that i am not one of them.
Perhaps one gets used to being poor....
That is life, elected governments have to address this matter and I suppose the poor vote Labour and the well off and comfortable vote Conservative.
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It seems to me that the Government has got its head in the sand over wage levels for poorly paid staff.

This morning, it announced that massive contracts have been awarded to firms who will be involved in HS2.

The amount of money that will be spent on this infrastructure project is eye-wateringly huge.....at least £56bn, and probably more. And all to shave 20 mins off the journey time to London from Brum.

Compare this expenditure to paying the cleaners at Barts an extra 30p an hour. Priorities are completely wrong here.
Not sure that is quite true sqad, I know many poor people with aspirations that vote Tory because they take a long term view. Conversely I also know champaign socialists that vote labour despite being very wealthy - often money mad of the back of others' graft!
Mickey, you are comparing apples and pears.
YHG.....;-) quite true and so do I.
But I was generalising in an effort to make a difficult debate.....simple.
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Sqad....judging from the result on June 8th, I am no longer sure that things are that simple anymore.

My family have had a great deal of contact with the NHS in the last 3-4 years, what with my brothers head injury, and this will increase this year, as myself, and my next down brother will require serious heart surgery.

Speaking personally, I would gladly pay more tax in order to fund the NHS, but are not willing to waste money on extravagant vanity projects like HS2.

We have debated the NHS many times here on AB and I think we both agree in principle. There are many reasons that Labour will soon find itself in Number Ten again, but the NHS is head and shoulders above any other issue.
So you are happy to keep pouring money into the NHS to fund already overpaid managers and empires that are not needed Mickey?

you honestly think money into the NHS would filter down to those we all want it to go to? If so you are more naive than I thought.
mikey

"Sqad....judging from the result on June 8th, I am no longer sure that things are that simple anymore. "
Yes, I would agree with you.
The NHS and doctors always do better financially under a Labour government,but whether it improves the NHS is another matter for debate.
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YMB....no, of course I'm not....where have I ever suggested that I am ?
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Sqad....that extra 30p an hour would make a real difference to those cleaners !
mikey......
"that extra 30p an hour would make a real difference to those cleaners" !

Can you just imagine the headlines...."Tories give cleaners 30p an hour payrise" We would then get MP's pay, Hammond's pay, etc..etc.
however....you may be correct £40/ month may well sit nicely on their payslip.
Supply and demand will always play a major part on wages. Hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants will guarantee the lowest possible wages for many. (and as we all know even illegal wages)


It doesn't matter what the minimum wage rate is. It could be £10 or £20 an hour it will never be enough.

Because once you up that everything else goes up to pay for it. It is a catch 22 situation.

I have said before that one one hand the minimum wage has helped regulate bad employers trying to exploit workers.

On the other it has kept wages low by the fact as long as pay is at the minimum they are within the law.

Gone are the days (except perhaps public sector) of graded pay scales.

Cleaner a. Warehouseman b. Accounts Clark c. Shelf stacker b. Etc etc

Now all but the qualified get a. £7.50 Pr hr. no more uplift for night workers or weekend workers.

I suggest the cleaner who lives in London might like to consider going self employed. Here on the South Coast a good cleaner can earn between £15-£20/hour. Even at the lower rate, 35 hours/week = £525 gross. Of course he/she won't get half a year's paid holiday and flexitime as well but there you go;-).
Ladybird has it.

There are benefits to being employed that lots of people forget about. Pension, holiday and sick pay.
The NMW is/was both a good idea and a bad one.

I wonder how many small business have ceased to exist since it was implemented?

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