What Is The Solution To Having Borderless Travel & Trade Between Eu Eire And Non-Eu Northern Ireland On Brexit?

[willbewhatiwill]

Her Majesty's Government (HMG) is in denial - as to have borderless travel between EU Eire and non-EU Northern Ireland on Brexit would surely require some form (present very vague & unknown) of freedom of person, goods and services arrangement with UK and the EU.

Individually tracking each person, goods and services crossing (often several times in a day) the Eire-Northern Irish border will require lots of administrative work, if not practically impossible.

Wake-up and smell the coffee!

[fiction-factory]

Okay will, thanks. My comment had been in response to ichkeria's post (hence my quote).
Yes there will be lots of tricky issues like this but with any major change- whether it be company reorganisations, changes of government, major economic turbulence something will be sorted out. We can't give up Brexit each time there is a perceived area of difficulty. When we joined the EU we must have had lots of people saying it was too complicated to unpick esxisting trading agreements and put new agreements in place, but we got by

[cassa333]

Perhaps the border with NI and Southern Ireland can remain as it is if that is what they choose. It is only when they travel from NI directly to the UK that is theproblem.

Maybe if traveling from NI they would still need to go through some sort of check point??? Maybe passport control?y

[Old_Geezer]

We have an open agreement now. Barring individuals just trying to be awkward, there is no reason we can't retain the same between Eire and N. Ireland citizens. Merely need to keep and eye on things to ensure other untitled EU citizens don't try to abuse the UK/Eire agreement. Has nothing to do with the EU. Just some folk trying to claim or cause trouble, as usual.

[willbewhatiwill]

Old_Geezer said, "There is no reason we can't retain the same between Eire and N. Ireland citizens. Merely need to keep and eye on things to ensure other untitled EU citizens don't try to abuse the UK/Eire agreement. Has nothing to do with the EU",

The problem is NOT movement of Eire and N. Ireland citizens in the Island of Ireland or UK mainland - the problem is freedom of such movement of EU citizens that are not Irish or British. The problem is also tracking trade tariffs with non-EU (including NI) and EU Eire - if there was not single market/custom union.

Eire and N. Ireland citizens always have the right and freedom to travel around Eire, NI and the rest of the UK mainland without immigration control. Irish and British Citizens resident in a UK constituency can vote in UK elections for the constituency.

[willbewhatiwill]

cassa333 stated, "Perhaps the border with NI and Southern Ireland can remain as it is if that is what they choose. It is only when they travel from NI directly to the UK that is the problem".

The problem is NOT movement of Eire and N. Ireland citizens within the Island of Ireland or UK mainland - the problem is freedom of such movement of EU citizens that are NOT Irish or British from Island of Ireland into mainland UK. The problem is also tracking trade tariffs with non-EU (including NI) and EU Eire - if there was not single market/custom union.

[Old_Geezer]

The movement on non UK and Irish citizens is not a problem. It just means there's a need to monitor for abuse. Trade issues isn't any more a problem across the Irish border than there is between any other part of the UK and the rest of the EU. If the EU opt to stop being awkward then a decent deal can be agreed, otherwise we trade under WTO rules. Their choice.

[willbewhatiwill]

Old_Geezer state, "Trade issues isn't any more a problem across the Irish border than there is between any other part of the UK and the rest of the EU".

Without proper border controls (with is undesirable) between N. Ireland and Eire how can one effectively track (and levy tariffs, if there is no single market/custom area) the movement of goods (& services) across N. Ireland and Eire border within the Island of Ireland??

[Old_Geezer]

Every trader has to hold records, books, pay taxes, etc..

[willbewhatiwill]

Old_Geezer stated, "Every trader has to hold records, books, pay taxes, etc.."

EU, Eire will certainly NOT agree with such imprecise and non-fail safe method of accounting the movement of goods between an EU state (i.e., Eire) and non-EU state (i.e. N. Ireland). Check it out.

[willbewhatiwill]

Irish PM Leo Varadkar speech at Queen's University in Belfast was reported in http://www.itv.com/news/2017-08-04/irish-pm-leo-varadkar-i-do-not-want-an-economic-border/ as follows:
"However, there are people who do want a trade border between the United Kingdom and the European Union and, therefore, between Ireland and Britain and, therefore, across Ireland. These are of course the advocates of a so-called hard Brexit. I believe the onus is on them to come up with proposals for such a border and convince us and convince you... such a border would be in your interests and that these borders would not be barriers to trade and commerce. They have already had 14 months to so, which should have been ample time to come with detailed proposals. But if they cannot , and I believe they cannot, then we can start to talk meaningfully about solutions that might work for all of us."

[willbewhatiwill]

There is very, very unlikely to be a solution to having borderless travel & trade between EU Eire and Non-EU Northern Ireland on Brexit.

If you optimistically think there will be one, then name that solution. If you cannot will anyone else able to do better and name that solution?