Brexit: Further Confusion And In-Fighting

[Zacs-Master]

A 3 year transitional period 'with continued free movement of people, single market access, a customs union arrangement and potentially oversight from a supranational tribunal structure' (whatever one of those is).

Is this what you voted for, leavers?

[youngmafbog]

This just looks to me like remoaner Hammond trying to stake his authority. May needs to step in and slap him down, holidays or not.

[New Judge]

She doesn't need to slap him down. She needs to chuck him out. He can then return to the back benches and get himself a part-time job to which he would be far more suited, such as an funeral director.

Businesses and individuals will have had almost three years by March 2019 to prepare for the "cliff edge". They should plan for their worst case scenario (which is my best case: we leave the EU and all its institutions immediately and only allow to settle here people whom we need. If necessary we trade under WTO regulations). They will almost certainly be pleasantly surprised as business and commerce will not suddenly come to a halt in March 2019

[lindapalmara]

No. This is Hammond making mischief whist Theresa May is away. She out to sack him.

[ichkeria]

It is all very worrying. We seem to have been lumbered by the most incompetent government in living memory (so bad for example that they seem to think Donald Trump can be trusted on trade deal promises but that is another story)
That we are even contemplating leaving the Customs Union I find staggering. As I may have said before, the way they fumbled to negotiate a deal with potential soul mates the DUP, not to mention an abject election campaign against "useless" Jeremy Corbyn and co, does not augur well for the "Premier League" showdown with the likes of M Barnier.
Every time I see David Davis's smile I shudder ...

[ichkeria]

"May needs to step in and slap him down"

I think you'll find that, not only is Mr Hammond a leading member of the cabinet with poweful allies, but Mrs May has had her "slapping hands" amputated along with her majority.

[New Judge]

"That we are even contemplating leaving the Customs Union I find staggering."

Why? It binds the UK to trading conditions which, in many cases, are of no benefit to it whatsoever. It compels us to impose duties on exports for which, in many cases, we are the predominant supplier in the EU when we may prefer not to impose those duties. It prevents us from negotiating deals that are tailor made for the UK and instead are stuck with those that don't suit us. What do you find "staggering" about wanting to be rid of that burden?

[jourdain2]

I think that the only reason that Hammond is still in the Cabinet is that he would be too dangerous a focus for the 'Remoaners' outside it and act as a focus for discontent. That said - he needs stopping.... and fast. Of course we expect to leave the Customs Union, Single Market etc.... what are they going on about? It is called 'Leaving the EU'. I am very disturbed by the lack of focus and unanimity in the Cabinet. A 'fudge' would be disastrous for our country.

[dance2trance]

It is a fraught issue and it will take time to walk though it all. What of fishing quotas? emission standards? the CAP quotas and crop grow incentives? electricity transmission? IT standards? More has to be worked though than how many people from not here are here and need to go back there or not. Add 10 years to it all.

[Old_Geezer]

It's still not confusing, merely unsettled at present.

We could remain in the customs union and/or the single market as long as the daft restrictions were dropped. Not that, that's likely, the EU want to retain control of member countries: the very reason we want out.

The easiest thing is to continue with existing practice wherever possible until changes are passed in parliament. The UK covers existing EU money returns out of the subscription saving: no one needs to move to or from here dimply because of Brexit, but there will be controls on further movement after we have left.

It's good potential issues are highlighted, but it seems some wish to make more if them than is warranted. Note, agree simple solution for now, move on.

[Old_Geezer]

How does it manage it ?

...Simply...

>:-(

[ichkeria]

"What do you find "staggering" about wanting to be rid of that burden? "

Wait until you see the chaos at the borders

[youngmafbog]

Will it be like the chaos at the borders of the countries we currently dont have a deal with?

Stop being so melodramatic, are you a member of project fear the sequel by any chance?

[ichkeria]

I don't think we have any borders with countries we do't share a customes agreement with do we?
We used to, of course, in the days before container traffic mushroomed ...

[Quizmonster]

The Conservatives are criminally incompetent.
Perhaps you imagined that the words above are my, Quizmonster’s, thoughts. They well might have been, of course, since I agree with them. However, they formed the headline for Matthew Parris’s column in Saturday’s Times. (Their site has a pay-wall, so I have no link for you and, in any case, I read it in the paper itself. It’s on Page 25.)
Mr Parris has been a lifelong Conservative and a Conservative MP who worked closely with Margaret Thatcher. He is appalled and ashamed at the way they are handling Brexit.
In the article itself, he refers to Theresa May being (quote) “reduced to flapping around spouting implausibilities.” (Sounds rather like her election campaign!)
It truly is a shambles.

Do try to bear in mind that claiming it would be no better under Labour is pointless, given that two wrongs don’t make a right and the second wrong fails to make the first acceptable.

[ichkeria]

I read that article quizmonster. Of course the usual suspects will claim Parris is really a leftie, but it you have been following his thoughts for the past few months, you will know he's bent over backwards to try to stand up for the PM. But has finally admitted defeat.

[New Judge]

"I don't think we have any borders with countries we do't share a customes agreement with do we?"

No land borders as far as I know. But huge amounts of trade is done with nations with which we have no trading or customs agreement and I don't see any problems that hamper that trade.

With the customs union it's rather the same as the EU in its entirety. It's a question of balance: do you want to continue to put up with the huge disadvantages that follow from membership in order to retain the few advantages? The UK decided it did not.