Are Black, Asian And Minority Ethnic People Treated Differently By The British Justice System?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4863732/Criminals-ditch-court-agreeing-therapy-instead.html

/// Studies show that suspicion of police, prosecutors and solicitors makes ethnic-minority defendants a third more likely to plead not guilty than white suspects, leading to harsher sentences if they are convicted. ///

[mikey4444]

This report says that they are ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41191311

[Zacs-Master]

Yes they are. That's why your suggestion to increase stop and search the other day wouldn't work.

I am, however, puzzled by the DM reporters comment:

'Studies show that suspicion of police, prosecutors and solicitors makes ethnic-minority defendants a third more likely to plead not guilty than white suspects, leading to harsher sentences if they are convicted.'

Erm.......doesn't that mean that they were, in fact, guilty anyway?

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

How do you work that out? Your BBC report doesn't say anything different from the Mail's report.

/// Trust is one of the major issues, according to the report. It says individuals from these backgrounds do not trust the advice provided by their solicitors or police officers when it comes to pleading
guilty. ///

They both say the problem lies with the distrust shown by these groups regarding the advice provided by their solicitors or police officers when it comes to pleading guilty.

So surely nothing can be done about the huge chip that they continue to bear on their shoulders, except for they themselves to get rid of it and accept that if they get into trouble, own up to it and don't resist arrest, then they will be treated no differently to anyone else, why should they be?

[mikey4444]

AOG....you asked the initial question, and I gave my answer !

Just to reiterate....the link says ::::

"A review led by him (Lammy) found the system in England and Wales is biased and discriminates in treatment of people from ethnic minority backgrounds"

[anotheoldgit]

Zacs-Master

/// Erm.......doesn't that mean that they were, in fact, guilty anyway? ///

No not until they have been proven guilty in a court of law.

But it is like the way they generally try to violently resist arrest, when caught they will not plead guilty, thus they are then given a harsher sentence than if they had pleaded guilty in the first place.

[mikey4444]

AOG..........read the report, specifically the recommendations.

[sandyRoe]

The fact that someone pleads guilty doesn't necessarily mean that they committed the crime they were accused of. If they believed the judicial system was biased against them they might feel offering a defence was futile, they'd be found guilty anyway, and the judge would be in a position to impose a harsher sentence.

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// AOG....you asked the initial question, and I gave my answer ! ///

No you didn't you just provide another link to the story.

You might just as well have said "The Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic People, say they are, according to Lammy".

[Old_Geezer]

Coincidently I've just read the BBC article. Lammy claims bias but doesn't seem to give evidence. Who is to say why one section of the community is shown to be represented in greater numbers than one should expect. Might be bias, or it might be that there's a reason that section has more misbehaving members than other sections. If deferring prosecution is a good thing it should be argued for generally, not based on the accused minority status. If one section of the community has less trust in their legal representation than the rest, then that's something they should consider, and decide to change their attitude to.

[sandyRoe]

AOG, do you believe that Lammy's report might be coloured by, err, the fact that he is coloured?

[mikey4444]

AOG....you are getting tedious. I presume you haven't read all the BBC link and/or the report itself.

I could have predicted that you wouldn't agree with the report, when it first aired early this morning, but the Report does indeed indicate that black, Asian And minority ethnic people treated differently by the British justice system?....which is what you asked earlier.

I have nothing further to add.

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

/// If they believed the judicial system was biased against them they might feel offering a defence was futile, ///

That could apply to anyone no matter what their ethnicity, one cannot place the blame on the judicial system for one's mistrust of it.

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

/// AOG, do you believe that Lammy's report might be coloured by, err, the fact that he is
coloured? ///

Tut, Tut Sandy old boy, don't you mean Black?

[Zacs-Master]

AOG "No not until they have been proven guilty in a court of law"

I was referring to the ones proven guilty as in 'leading to harsher sentences if they are convicted.'

[Zacs-Master]

'That could apply to anyone no matter what their ethnicity, one cannot place the blame on the judicial system for one's mistrust of it.'

One can when there is mountains of evidence to prove it exists.

This just leads back to an old thread of yours AOG, where you claimed that black people are genetically predisposed to crime.

[Ellipsis]

White guy: knows he's guilty, believes if he pleads guilty he will get a lighter sentence, pleads guilty, gets a lighter sentence

Black guy: knows he's guilty, does not believe if he pleads guilty he will get a lighter sentence [for some reason], pleads innocent, is found guilty, gets a heavier sentence

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

If they are treated differently, it is because they are given harsher sentences because they themselves refuse to admit guilt and are therefore sentenced more harshly than if they themselves chose to admit guilt, but this applies to any criminal not just ethnics.

[Khandro]

If the statistics showed that people with blue eyes committed far more crimes than any others, wouldn't you expect more people with blue eyes to be stopped and searched than any others?

[anotheoldgit]

Zacs-Master

Is there any proof that any Judge as being found guilty of being biased towards certain ethnics?

/// This just leads back to an old thread of yours AOG, where you claimed that black people are genetically predisposed to
crime. ///

The percentage of Blacks and Asians in our prisons prove it to be, but of course silly me it is just because our judicial system throws them into jankers willy nilly.

[Zacs-Master]

AOG, you postulate whether there is inequality in the U.K. Justice system, people go on to clarify why there is and you still believe black people are predisposed to crime!

You're simply unbelievable.