20Billion Euros To Get Out Of A Club We've Paid For For 44 Year?? Madness

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580
Have a day off Tezza!

[jim360]

Also, anyone comparing leaving the EU to a TV Licence and thinking themselves all clever for having done so has another think coming.

[DTCwordfan]

weren't the leavers saying that we will get money back? Where and who from?

Having said that, a graduated withdrawal makes a heck of a lot of sense, as long as we retain the right to sign new trade deals.

[Zacs-Master]

Precisely. I do wish people would stop referring to the EU as a club. It's a financial cooperative and the rules of a club membership are quite different.

[jim360]

I'm not quite sure, but is this meant to be the effectively complete "divorce bill"? In which case this offer is probably something in the region of half what the EU is rumoured to have asked for. It strikes me as a reasonable compromise offer, if so. And that's *still* not good enough for Brexmoaners, who seem determined to treat "deal" as a four-letter word.

[Mamyalynne]

It was made clear (albeit without a clear figure ) that financial commitments and liabilities would have to be settled - surely people knew this before voting.

For some to suggest a two fingered salute is naive in the extreme.

[Zacs-Master]

'surely people knew this before voting'

I recall myself, and several others, having to explain to Tora what Brexit actually meant, just after the results were announced. So....no.....I don't think they did.

[Gromit]

We have made legal commitments to future spending, and there is no getting out of it.
It is a contract, and we either have to honour what we signed, or we have to pay a penalty.
The EU reckon we must pay £100billion and May is offering £20billion. If anyone thinks the EU will settle for May's offer, they are clearly living on another planet.
What will probably happen is that we will end up paying 3 times May's offer, and that will then be presented as some kind of victory.

[jourdain2]

We have commitments to pensions etc.. Apart from them I don't see why we should pay anything more than the Swiss pay (c. 4 billion euros a year, I believe) during the transition period. Personally, I think we should tell businesses and everyone else to prepare for a 'no deal' scenario, because that is what will happen.

Mrs. May is falling into the trap that Varousakis warned of. He said 'Don't talk to them, just go.' He specifically stated that had tried to approach heads of state (e.g. Merkle)to break the deadlock he was in with the EU beaurocrats and that the EU Heads of state had sent him back to the eurocrats and that he was sent from pillar to post and got nowhere. May is talking about speaking to Merkle etc. directly. She will be sent back to M. Barnier etc., etc..

[Zacs-Master]

And how, exactly, should businesses prepare for a no deal exit?

[jourdain2]

By assuming we will use WTO rules, ZM.

[Zacs-Master]

So, im CEO of a company who exports to Europe and benefits from tariff free business. How do I prepare for a hard Brexit under WTO rules?

[Gromit]

Yanis Varoufakis

Would that be the far left, Greek Marxist ?

Are you seriously suggesting that his opinion on Brexit is relevent to any of us in the UK ?

[jourdain2]

Insofar as his dealings with the EU are concerned, yes. He has experienced how they operate. We are in a stronger position, but should take note i.m.o..

[New Judge]

“How do I prepare for a hard Brexit under WTO rules?”

By getting on with it, not sitting on your hands for the last fifteen months and doing what you’re paid (handsomely) to do – manage your business.

“We should tell all those Johnny Foreigners that we're hoping to get mutually favourable trade relations with in the future…”

I never said that. Quite the reverse, in fact.

“…as well as maintaining long-lasting security, scientific, educational, tourist-related ties with to *** off.”

Those accommodations are not dependent on EU membership, Jim. We have such ties with other countries and we don’t belong to any Union to take advantage of them.

[Gromit]

jourdain2

Are you completely naive ?
The Greeks desperately want to stay in the EU, they just do not want to pay back the British Tax Payer for bailing them out. In other words, a completelly different situation.

[jourdain2]

Thank you, NJ.

[jourdain2]

Precisely, Gromit, we do not 'desperately want to stay in the EU' and I agree that it is a completely different situation. The fact remains that Varousakis explained how the EU operates and manages to confuse and obfuscate and we should pay heed to this advice.

[jim360]

I'm aware that we have ties with other countries, NJ, but it would be churlish to deny that the ties to the EU are closer, and it would also be pretty unreasonable to expect them to remain on the same terms if we offer nothing in return other than a two-fingered salute.

It seems to me that Brexiteers are constantly going on about how this whole thing will open us to the world. Perhaps a good way to make the most of that opportunity is to show the world that we are open to them; a compromise deal of this sort, which is principally designed to ensure that the EU budget isn't damaged by our departure, is precisely the sort of thing that shows the world we can be dealt with fairly.

[Zacs-Master]

NJ, fine words but how, exactly, should I prepare my business to trade with my clients under WTO rules?

What benefits can I expect?

[jim360]

Incidentally, NJ, businesses can hardly prepare meaningfully for a "no deal" option -- or even a "deal" -- if they aren't sure which to expect or what shape the deal will be. And WTO rules are not all that favourable or brilliant. It was suggested, for example, that under no arrangement having to fill in the extra paperwork needed would dramatically reduce the speed at which trade can move through Dover, which on its own would hit the UK economy somewhat. I can't say I'm fully aware of all the ins and outs of various trade scenarios, but the fact is that "no deal" is an option that almost all businesses are desperate to avoid.