Call This A Free Country?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4973074/Market-trader-56-BANNED-town-centre.html

What next the burning of certain books out of their library, to take place in their market place?

[Gromit]

Yes, has back story written all over it.

// We visited the trader at her stall and found that some of the items being sold were modern mugs with Nazi symbols, and not historical or vintage items. //

We get to see the Knights Templar jugs which seem inoffensive, but not the nazis ones, which I suspect might be offensive.

[jackthehat]

I'd be suspecting the other traders on the market selling contemporary mugs, to be honest....

[youngmafbog]

//some of the items being sold were modern mugs with Nazi symbols//

Is that illegal then?

[THECORBYLOON]

I'm sure many folk would be offended by a mugs with Nazi symbols on them.

Would ANOTHEOLDGIT be happy to receive a Nazi mug as a birthday or Christmas present?

[Islay]

A mug containing a painted scene of a concentration camp perhaps?

[youngmafbog]

//I'm sure many folk would be offended by a mugs with Nazi symbols on them. //

That's as maybe, I certainly would not be over the moon but I really can't see how something not illegal can be banned. As pointed out by many above the level of being offended in this country has reach ridiculous levels such that I doubt many items could be sold without someone finding some sort of offence.

If something is that bad then people should campaign for a change in the law not use the back door to implement their own prejudices.

[youngmafbog]

//A mug containing a painted scene of a concentration camp perhaps? //

Yes, not nice but not illegal so I dont really see the point you are trying to make with that one.

If you use 'being offended' as the bar where do you stop? Where is the line? That is why it needs to be on a point of illegality not on someone being offended.

[Mamyalynne]

It's more than legality though - Council run markets have their rules and guidelines and inspectors to enforce them.

I'm not saying they haven't been heavy handed here, but Tina does have the right to appeal.

[andy-hughes]

This is a tricky one.

I have no issue with the trader being banned - according to the piece, she contravened the council's laws regarding its stalls, so no problem.

I do have an issue with the reason why she was criticised - for selling Knights Templar mugs.

It's true that their symbols were 'culturally appropriated (ha ha!') by the Nazi Party, but that does not detract from the fact that history is what it is, and pretending that it is not is an insidious censorship that should robustly be resisted at all costs.

I worry that one person is able to 'take offence' and cause a situation where a trader is sanctioned for selling legal merchandise.

Even allowing for the large Muslim population in this area, I am not at all sure that the majority of Muslims would appreciate 'offence' being taken on their behalf in this way - or the reaction of the council.

I think that the council do not come out of this well.

[jackthehat]

There is NOTHING in the article which suggests that offence was caused by the content of the mugs.
Tina Gayle operates, basically, an Antiquarian stall - this has traded with no problem......even books on Nazi, etc. have been sold without murmur.
However, she is selling *modern* mugs showing 'old' illustrations and it seems to be the *modern* mugs that is the problem.
If she was selling Mrs Goebbel's tea-service complete with contemperaneous swastikas she would have no problem.

[youngmafbog]

I wonder if the butcher stall has been banned fro selling pork yet?

[andy-hughes]

jack - are you in the market for hazarding a guess about exactly what the offended party was offended with?

[Islay]

Now you are just looking daft youngmafbog

[youngmafbog]

Why Isaly?

We are constantly told the Muslims are offended by pork so I am surprised someone hasn't taken offence on behalf of them and had Pork banned.

It is no different. Both items are legal but may cause 'offence' to a minority.

[douglas9401]

'It's not for us to comment as to why the mugs were offensive to the complainant,....."

Au contraire my dear council operative, that should be precisely 'for you' to do if for no other reason than natural justice.
Removing stuff at the whim of an operative with a clipboard could be seen as the actions of a totalitarian state such as the one defeated in WWII or at least one on the slippery slope to that state of affairs.

Maybe someone should start a crusade on behalf of the free market in legal goods.

[jackthehat]

I've already explained that I think it is far more likely to be another trader who has taken exception to the fact that Tina Gayle has started to muscle-in on their wares...

[anotheoldgit]

Islay

/// If someone sold a mug with the ISIS emblem on it suggesting death to the white man - would you not find that offensive? ///

I didn't realised ISIS bothered what colour skin their victims had.

Good grief Islay it took place 710 years ago.

Perhaps we should demand that the Colosseum be removed. look how many Christians were put to death there?

[youngmafbog]

Yes, I suspect you may well be right there JTH.

[anotheoldgit]

THECORBYLOON

/// During the war, were there many folk drinking from mugs with Nazi symbols on them too? ///

Yes most likely throughout Nazi occupied Europe.

And during the war and even after the war Nazi memorabilia was much sort after.

[Togo]

//I've already explained that I think it is far more likely to be another trader who has taken exception to the fact that Tina Gayle has started to muscle-in on their wares...//

Perhaps it would have been wiser to move her stall away from the pitch of the stallholder who complained. You know how easily frightened, disgusted, culturally sensitive, insulted, or just plain troublesome(pick your own adjective) certain sections of our vibrant multi-society have been encouraged to become. :))