Another Judge Gets Sentence Wrong For Workman

[Rtaxron]

A Tragedy, No ifs & Buts about it, but a prison sentence for somebody doing a job of work, which wasn't checked, by a senior employee of his company, who only received a £12,000 fine.

Some people don'|t get that for for murder, or attempted murder these days, so once again the judges get it all wrong, or he was unlucky his trial was held where it was, as it might have been a different outcome.

.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5034753/Workman-jailed-faulty-gate-killed-grandmother.html#newcomment

[EDDIE51]

The judge did NOT get it wrong he sentenced for the offence charged which was gross negligence. It was NOT murder,manslaughter or attempted murder , not even assault. 3 years is a long sentence for that offence.
Yet again I have to repeat that a judge does not make up the sentence . He/she has to sentence according to the sentencing guidelines for the specific offence charged.

[fiction-factory]

Manslaughter by gross negligence, EDDIE

[EDDIE51]

^ Yes and 3 years is near the top for that offence. It is below 'full' manslaughter or manslaughter with intent to cause injury. There was gross negligence but NOT intent to cause injury.

[douglas9401]

I'm very, VERY confused now.
I suppose that's why judges and lawyers go to Judgin' and Lawyerin' School, so they can at least have coherent thought from one moment to the next.

[Davemano]

The charge he was convicted of was one of Manslaughter by gross neglect - Involuntary Manslaughter. So Eddie it WAS Manslaughter. There is no criminal offence of gross neglect.

[Davemano]

^^^^^For neglect read negligence.

[khaleesi]

i;m with new judge. more needs to be done to stop unskilled and untrained "tradesmen" going into peoples homes and not doing jobs properly and putting peoples lives at risk just to make a quick buck.

[EDDIE51]

Davemano Yes Involuntary manslaughter, that was the phase I was trying to remember. It means he did not intend to cause harm, but harm occurred due to his action or inaction. That is why the sentence is 3 years.
Douglas9401, Judges are appointed from qualified legal professionals normally Barristers who have many years expierience in the law. They would start as part time judges at a lower court before being moved up to Crown / High Court. There are sentencing guidelines for every offence and Judges have to abide by them by them. The skill comes in being able to 'Make Judgement' about the merits of each case and advise the lawyers and jury. In most courts it is the jury who make the decision guilty or not guilty after a summing up by the judge ,again it is in the summing up that a judge needs the 'wisdom' to get it correct.
So a Judge does not go to 'Judge School' he/she gains expierience as a legal professional, which takes several years, and after more years experience as a fully qualified barrister can become a judge.
It is worth mentioning that lawyers and barristers are not paid a salary. They are paid fees on a case by case basis so the more cases they take the more they earn. Also the more successful they are at getting their clients found not guilty the more they can charge for taking a case.
A Judge on the other hand must be impartial they are paid a salary, so that they have no incentive get more money by taking more cases and getting charges dropped or getting not guilty pleas.
Once you become a judge and get a salary you can NEVER go back to being a fee earning lawyer or barrister .
For this reason many lawyers and barristers do not want to become judges and will refuse the chance if it is offered.

[Peter Pedant]

//So Eddie it WAS Manslaughter. There is no criminal offence of gross neglect.//

nope sorry it was manslaughter by gross neglect - and IS a criminal offence ( so there is a mens rea - of negligence - instead of intent ('I wanted to kill him') - which not surprisingly the judges dont like)

and really the only discussion is whether reckless manslaughter ( caldwell as against lawrence) is different. And the answer is seventies no - eighties yes deffo - nineties no deffo and this year - not sure but probably yes

start here
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/involuntary-manslaughter/
which IMO is not that good

sorry a bit of a technical answer

[Peter Pedant]

// Once you become a judge and get a salary you can NEVER go back to being a fee earning lawyer or barrister .
For this reason many lawyers and barristers do not want to become judges and will refuse the chance if it is offered.//

hahahahah oh eddie you are a Card!

once you become a judge you become eligible for a Very Large Pension ( as under their very own Judges' Pensions Act - yup there really is one ) - which not even that civil servant who docked our pensions and got a Large One himself ( pension I mean !!) can even dream about

lawyers may not become judges b/c of the pay cut
and so the argument went ( no really ) their Pensions non contributory must be Very Large Indeed
or else no one will volunteer - certainly not The Very best

and yeah there is one judge who resigned
( said he couldnt stand the endless round of criminal cases which he found boring because a lot of the time they had done it)
and went back to the Commercial Court
McCcardie shot his brains out in 1923 over gambling debts - does that count as a resignation ?

and Denning ( not the same ) went from senior judgy-baby ( Law Lord ) BACK to the appeal court ( prefect-judgie-baby ) because he said he could do more law ( as Master of the Rolls - senior pree of the appeal court )

[Davemano]

Peter pedant - you have misconstrued my post which I was addressing Eddie saying that the charge was one of Gross Negligence. I was simply saying the there was no crime of Gross Negligence by itself and that Manslaughter was a major ingredient. So when I was saying that it was Manslaughter, I had already clarified the Gross Negligence point.