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Should Damian Green Be Sacked?
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Or is there a kind of conspiracy against him by certain police officers?
Or is there a kind of conspiracy against him by certain police officers?
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YMB - // This was 2009 though and security was not as tight as it is today coupled with the fact it would not have been difficult to falsify the file storage - if you had a mind to do it. //
I would argue that security on government computers was certainly tighter than most employee PC's, even in those days. From the days when computers became common in the workplace, the government must have needed stringent security of its records.
I would also dispute that file storage tampering would be easy and undetectable.
//What is really worrying is that Government computers appeared to be able to access anything on the internet. That is wrong and I hope it is not the case today. //
That is an excellent point.
BT computers have seriously strong checks of material accessed, if anything is seen as untoward, or even unnecessary, the user is advised with a message, and advised that this has been logged by the security team. Obviously continual attempt to access a site so advised would lead to some serious questions.
As an example of how sensitive the security parameters are - I attempted to access a night school course, and was picked up for using the term 'adult' in my search!
I would argue that security on government computers was certainly tighter than most employee PC's, even in those days. From the days when computers became common in the workplace, the government must have needed stringent security of its records.
I would also dispute that file storage tampering would be easy and undetectable.
//What is really worrying is that Government computers appeared to be able to access anything on the internet. That is wrong and I hope it is not the case today. //
That is an excellent point.
BT computers have seriously strong checks of material accessed, if anything is seen as untoward, or even unnecessary, the user is advised with a message, and advised that this has been logged by the security team. Obviously continual attempt to access a site so advised would lead to some serious questions.
As an example of how sensitive the security parameters are - I attempted to access a night school course, and was picked up for using the term 'adult' in my search!
Much is being made that the porn wasn’t illegal and rherefore there is no crime. That might have just been Green’s good luck...
Just found this on The Times website:
// Porn ‘on Damian Green’s computer’ was outlawed weeks later.
Pornography allegedly found on Damian Green’s Commons computer would have been illegal if had been found eight weeks later, it was claimed last night.
The computer was seized from his office in November 27, 2008, before the law on possessing violent and extreme images was changed in January 2009.
The former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, has already said he was aware that pornographic material was found when the device was seized but that there “was no criminality involved”.
It is unclear who viewed the material but sources told The Sun that pornography was viewed on the computer on “an almost daily basis” and would have been illegal two months later. //
https:/
Just found this on The Times website:
// Porn ‘on Damian Green’s computer’ was outlawed weeks later.
Pornography allegedly found on Damian Green’s Commons computer would have been illegal if had been found eight weeks later, it was claimed last night.
The computer was seized from his office in November 27, 2008, before the law on possessing violent and extreme images was changed in January 2009.
The former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, has already said he was aware that pornographic material was found when the device was seized but that there “was no criminality involved”.
It is unclear who viewed the material but sources told The Sun that pornography was viewed on the computer on “an almost daily basis” and would have been illegal two months later. //
https:/
Gromit - // Much is being made that the porn wasn’t illegal and rherefore there is no crime. That might have just been Green’s good luck... //
I would have to agree.
But as I have said, he may not be guilty of downloading pornography - but he is guilty of seriously poor judgement, and that may yet see an end to his career, or certainly a downward turn in its progress.
I would have to agree.
But as I have said, he may not be guilty of downloading pornography - but he is guilty of seriously poor judgement, and that may yet see an end to his career, or certainly a downward turn in its progress.
Bob Quick was caught in a security breach. He had to step down as he was head of Terror section. Nobody has actual evidence that Green downloaded this porn, just a couple of ex cops with a grudge.
https:/
Who know when those notebooks were written and why they kept them all this time.
https:/
Who know when those notebooks were written and why they kept them all this time.
"Much is being made that the porn wasn’t illegal and rherefore there is no crime."
The reason for that is because of the source of the information. It comes from a former police officer's notebook and it was agreed at the time of the enquiries (for which those notes were made) that there was no criminal activity involved. So the questions arise again: Why did ex-detective Lewis retain his police notebook (or at least a copy of it) when he left the force and why has he disclosed confidential police information which did not amount to criminality but which involved a senior politician? If Mr Green had used his official computer to access inappropriate (but legal) material that is not a matter for the police. I am far more concerned about the police and their obvious vendetta against a number of politicians - part of which involves disclosing confidential information which they have gathered as part of their investigations - than I am about Mr Green accessing pornography
The reason for that is because of the source of the information. It comes from a former police officer's notebook and it was agreed at the time of the enquiries (for which those notes were made) that there was no criminal activity involved. So the questions arise again: Why did ex-detective Lewis retain his police notebook (or at least a copy of it) when he left the force and why has he disclosed confidential police information which did not amount to criminality but which involved a senior politician? If Mr Green had used his official computer to access inappropriate (but legal) material that is not a matter for the police. I am far more concerned about the police and their obvious vendetta against a number of politicians - part of which involves disclosing confidential information which they have gathered as part of their investigations - than I am about Mr Green accessing pornography
Anyone who is proven to have broken the law of the land or the workplace rules (in this case either the ministerial code or Westminsters code of conduct) should be sacked. In the Damian Green case there is no suggestion that he has broken the law, so it is not a case for the police but the Commons authorities.
Hazi....nobody is suggesting that Green broke the law.
But if he did download porn onto his PC, he is failing in his duties to the House of Commons, and if he is lying about not doing it, he is misleading the House.
And you are right about it being an affair for the House to consider, which is precisely why he House is investigating him now.
But if he did download porn onto his PC, he is failing in his duties to the House of Commons, and if he is lying about not doing it, he is misleading the House.
And you are right about it being an affair for the House to consider, which is precisely why he House is investigating him now.
"...there is no doubt whatsoever that porn WAS found on Greens PC."
On what do you base that, Mikey. All I've seen is a photocopy of what is said to be a passage from a police notebook. The highlighted passage reads thus (if I've interpreted the handwriting correctly):
"Update on computer progress and gave input on pornography and the difficulty on keyword searching scanned documents."
I've no idea what that means. In fact it makes no sense at all to me (though it might serve as an aide-memoir to the author). The document (which for some strange reason seems to be the copyright of the BBC) is labelled (in the Daily Mail report) thus:
"Mr Lewis' notebook shows how pornography had been found on the computer -..."
It shows me no such thing. In fact, as I have said, it shows me nothing at all. As well as that it could have been compiled at any time and its veracity has not been tested. I understand ex-detective Lewis has also stated that he had no doubt that the computer had been used to access pornography. As I said in my last answer, whether true or not, it had no bearing on his enquiries into unrelated matters and was, as such, confidential information.
On what do you base that, Mikey. All I've seen is a photocopy of what is said to be a passage from a police notebook. The highlighted passage reads thus (if I've interpreted the handwriting correctly):
"Update on computer progress and gave input on pornography and the difficulty on keyword searching scanned documents."
I've no idea what that means. In fact it makes no sense at all to me (though it might serve as an aide-memoir to the author). The document (which for some strange reason seems to be the copyright of the BBC) is labelled (in the Daily Mail report) thus:
"Mr Lewis' notebook shows how pornography had been found on the computer -..."
It shows me no such thing. In fact, as I have said, it shows me nothing at all. As well as that it could have been compiled at any time and its veracity has not been tested. I understand ex-detective Lewis has also stated that he had no doubt that the computer had been used to access pornography. As I said in my last answer, whether true or not, it had no bearing on his enquiries into unrelated matters and was, as such, confidential information.
If honourable members behaved, errr, honourably there would be no need for any of this stuff.
Instead though they get an idea into there heads that they're supremely talented and know what's best.
Sadly this is hardly ever the case and their vanity carries them to the point where they either have to admit their shortcomings or at very least find someone to take the blame for them.
Instead though they get an idea into there heads that they're supremely talented and know what's best.
Sadly this is hardly ever the case and their vanity carries them to the point where they either have to admit their shortcomings or at very least find someone to take the blame for them.
^ Sorry that was to Gromit.
As to the porn, has it not been established that the only reason it was not illegal is that the law was in the process of being changed, and a short while later it would have been illegal ? That tells me this was far worse than the legal porn that anyone can view with just a few clicks of your computer.
( Possibly involving violence or even child sex abuse?)
We can't know what was actually involved but I think it must have been more than a modern version of the classic 'Debbie Does Dallas'
As to the porn, has it not been established that the only reason it was not illegal is that the law was in the process of being changed, and a short while later it would have been illegal ? That tells me this was far worse than the legal porn that anyone can view with just a few clicks of your computer.
( Possibly involving violence or even child sex abuse?)
We can't know what was actually involved but I think it must have been more than a modern version of the classic 'Debbie Does Dallas'
-- answer removed --
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