Transplants

[sunny-dave]

Getting away from the 'presumed consent' issue - although I may go back there as well - I'd like to pose a question ...

There are four possible combinations of answers to these two questions :

1. Would you accept a transplant?

2. Would you allow your organs to be used for transplantation after your death?

The combinations are

YES/YES

NO/NO

NO/YES

YES/NO

The first two are (self-evidently) consistent and honest - no problems there at all.

The third is unusual - but I can see circumstances where I might refuse a transplant (perhaps because of other health issues) but would still wish my organs to be used.

The fourth seems (to me) to be wholly hypocritical and unacceptable. Would anyone like to defend that position? Or what would you do if someone chose that option?

[woofgang]

Don't know and don't know

[gness]

Yes to both, Dave......we've both seen what waiting does to a person.......and the difference receiving makes...x

[1ozzy]

Not sure and yes.

It would depend on the reason and which organ I required.

If any of my organs haven't been totally trashed during my life time I'd want them put to good use.

[Ellipsis]

I can argue the fourth position without holding it myself.

As it's late, I'll shortcut by saying have a read of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_(psychology)

Just the intro will do:
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Death anxiety is anxiety which is caused by thoughts of death. One source defines death anxiety as a "feeling of dread, apprehension or solicitude (anxiety) when one thinks of the process of dying, or ceasing to 'be'". It is also referred to as thanatophobia (fear of death), and is distinguished from necrophobia, which is a specific fear of dead or dying persons and/or things (i.e. others who are dead or dying, not one's own death or dying).

Additionally, there is anxiety caused by death-related thought-content, which might be classified within a clinical setting by a psychiatrist as morbid and/or abnormal, which for classification pre-necessitates a degree of anxiety which is persistent and interferes with everyday functioning. Lower ego integrity, more physical problems, and more psychological problems are predictive of higher levels of death anxiety in elderly people because of how close to death they are.
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Then imagine somebody with such fears/phobias agreeing to have their organs removed while they're still alive.

Then imagine somebody with such fears/phobias being offered the opportunity of being kept alive by organ donation.

[kvalidir]

No, I probably wouldn't accept a transplant, but I would accept a mechanical organ.
Yes, I am a donor, they can use what they like of me once I am dead and I hope it benefits many people, but being a type one diabetic unlikely they would use much and I can't be a living donor.
3rd (ommitted question) I would donate blood if they would have it (Type 1 diabetic).

[wolf63]

My answer would be NO/YES.

I have no great desire to lengthen my life. This is mainly due to my mental health problem which tend to make life difficult..

Transplants save people and doctors can use any bit of me that they want.

[sunny-dave]

Ah - so virtually the whole population of Japan is suffering from this psychological problem then, ellipsis - since they pretty much all adhere vehemently to the fourth position?

They're not just a bunch of first-world hypocrites who will buy organs from destitute inhabitants of third-world countries?

It may be a real condition, but it's a pretty rare one I would surmise.

[woofgang]

I fail to see what the situation in Japan has to do with UK law?

[kvalidir]

Dave you asked for someone to defend it and someone did.

[sunny-dave]

It's a reasonable defence - but one which could be misused (hence my comments about Japan) and one which is is relatively rare I think.

[Ellipsis]

It's a very common phobia, Dave:

https://www.statisticbrain.com/fear-phobia-statistics/

Presumably the statistics quoted there are for all forms from mild to severe. Even so, fear of death is one of the most commonly cited fears.

[anneasquith]

Please stop making people feel guilty for opting out. Who knows why we decide , but it is our decision, we must respect other peoples decision. Guilt is not required to be foisted on people who dont share our views .

[sunny-dave]

I am not intending to make anyone feel guilty for opting-out - that's entirely their decision - but if they then want to retain the right to a transplant (if needed) then I reserve the right to point out their logical inconsistency.

[anneasquith]

Dave that is not how medicine works, the illest person will receive the first available organ, there is no reason to change the goal posts now .

[sunny-dave]

Unfortunately you are correct - it's wrong though - if I decide to reject an aspect of Society, then I should not be in line to benefit from that policy.

[gness]

Not so, Anne......unless the system has changed then in the case of kidneys the hospital where the donor dies can use one and the second goes to the national register......

And the person chosen to receive an organ won't necessarily be the person most ill.....it will go to the best possible recipient.......hence some waiting on the list for years....and some, not as ill, only days.....

Or....as in the case of MrG as an experiment for a new treatment for his type of condition......bit of a minefield which is why we need to make it as simple and kind as possible....x

[woofgang]

Gness, I respect your opinion and experiences but I don’t think that the proposed changes to current law will make the situation either simple or kind,

[gness]

We can only wait and see, Woof......I really hope it does...x

[vetuste_ennemi]

All options can be defended.

(Anybody toyed with ethical philosophy and understands what a thought experiment is?)

[jno]

this should never be a bargain. You could make individual bargains with people ("I'll give you mine if you give me yours"). But to extend that into some kind of transaction with the state ("We'll let you have a transplant if you agree to give us your body") is improper. It's not an equal bargain: the state is far more powerful, and is indeed trying to force the change of approach on us.