Pfi Deals Cost The Taxpayer A Lot More

[emmie]

why is that a surprise

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42724939

[mikey4444]

No surprise at all Emmie !

[Islay]

Well, Labour did nothing to get rid of them, infact they liked them so much they encouraged them!

[emmie]

A report suggests a group of schools cost 40% more to build and a hospital 70% more to construct than if they were financed by government borrowing.

so what's the answer - seems to me wrong in all senses of the word.

[youngmafbog]

It's no surprise that Governments (yes of all colours) cannot writ a contract for toffee.

In principle PFI's should work and should be cheaper, the problem arises because the civil service doesnt have the first clue on how to negotiate.

Shame really because run properly it would be a winner all round.

[mikey4444]

I presume some of these deals have worked, although I can't think of any at the moment !

[youngmafbog]

Well the deals deliver but it is the cost of the contract that is the issue. I believe all have been badly negotiated.

[dave50]

Gordon Brown loved them because he could brag about building lots more schools 'n' hospitals and not have to worry about having to borrow on his watch. It's someone else's problem in years to come.

[Kromovaracun]

They aren't badly negotiated. They are deliberately designed to be profitable for the contractor. PFIs are one of the most widespread ways in which public services have been converted into cash cows for third parties in exchange for favours or political patronage. The current state of the NHS, social care etc is intentional.

[dannyk13]

// The current state of the NHS, social care etc is intentional.//
Balderdash, proof please.

[Kromovaracun]

https://chpi.org.uk/papers/reports/pfi-profiting-from-infirmaries/

This report analyses profits made by PFI companies in the NHS over the last 6 years. In particular, observe that debt of NHS trusts would have been lower by about a quarter. Notice this is just PFI on its own - not anything else in public procurement.

For the links between this capital and politicians, see Chs. 7-9 of Alan White's 'Shadow State'. Any library will order it for you.

[emmie]

krom
i don't believe that for a minute, that it's intentional.

[dannyk13]

Where is the proof of your statement re the state of the NHS being intentional?

[Kromovaracun]

I already told you. The links between profiteers in public procurement and politics are documented by White. PFI companies make millions in profit from the NHS for decades and are even permitted to escape huge sums of tax while doing so:

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-09-04/nhs-pfi-firms-avoid-millions-in-tax

Are you seriously going to insist that this is all a happy accident for them? That it's nothing to do with lobbying by people like PPP Forum, a group set up by PFI companies for that explicit purpose? What do you think lobbying is?

[dannyk13]

You still have not any proof that the present state of the NHS is intentional.This is pure conjecture on your part.

[Kromovaracun]

It's a perfectly rational inference based on the sources I have given. I suppose it's entirely possible that lobbying groups explicitly set up by PFI companies to lobby for public-private partnerships have just happened to get their way (even the tax part!) by pure happenstance, and have never made any kind quid pro quo, because that's just how politics works. I find that a bit unlikely, though.

[dannyk13]

// It's a perfectly rational inference based on the sources I have given.//
That is just your opinion, not proof.

[Kromovaracun]

This is an internet forum, Danny. I don't know what you're expecting.

[dannyk13]

When someone makes an outrageous statement that someone intended the NHS to be in the state it is in then I require some proof to back it up.

[youngmafbog]

Some left wingers and conspiracy theorists dont provide proof Danny; because usually there isn't any.

[Kromovaracun]

I gave you two different links, a published book on the subject, and named you an organisation that specifically exists to bargain the government into making these deals. That is what lobbying is. What else would you call it if not deliberate? I'm sorry if the fact that I posted this on Answerbank under an anonymous username (and not in a peer-reviewed journal) somehow obscured that this was something I think.