It's A Lot Closer Than Switzerland. So Do You Think It's A Good Idea?

[youngmafbog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5525059/Suicide-clinics-legal-Guernsey.html

[Bigbad]

I think we should be given the opportunity at a certain age (maybe 21) to decide that if we end up with certain medical conditions, which leave us alive, but with a lousy existence, then we can choose to terminate our life.
We could sign a form to be kept with our medical records, with a list of exactly which circumstances we no longer wish to live.
The cocktail of drugs could be administered either whilst you are at home, or in hospital, no need to travel to do it.

If a choice was made when we are healthy (and of course, we should have the right to change our minds at any time), this would take away the possibility of relatives wanting to ‘dispatch’ their ‘nuisance’ family members.

Remember Tony Nicklinson? He was the man with Locked-in Syndrome who kept being told by judges that he didn’t have the right to choose to end his life.
Choosing for ourselves would also take away the need for court cases such as this.
I remember seeing a report about a lady who also had Locked-in Syndrome, who was very happy and smiley, and content to cary on living. We are all different.

I can think of many conditions where I wouldn’t want to carry on.
I’d like to be able to make that choice prior to that situation arising.

[emmie]

but if someone was cunning and there are plenty of those around, could doctor the documents where you said aged 21 that you wouldn't want to live if you had a degenerative disease, but you had a change of heart later on, after all no one knows what their life will turn out like. then that relative might invoke your earlier plea about being an assisted suicide, and you might not have the capacity by then to say that you would rather live.

[bhg481]

Hazi & emmie - have you ever been involved with someone with dementia? The mental torture my mother went through was very distressing to watch. She effectively killed my dad with his insistence to go to see her twice a day, a trip involving 2 bus rides and a half-mile walk up a steep hill; his heart didn't stand it.

[emmie]

yes i have, my mother died last June from what was described on the death certificate as lung cancer, yet she had been suffering from dementia for any number of years and had basically stopped eating, which made her organs pack up, yet no where would i say she should have had an assisted suicide, nor my brothers i am positive. they used to visit almost every day, i didn't because i live 70 miles away. But i couldn't imagine her in some clinic, that thought is abhorrent to me.

[jackthehat]

Emmie - Neither you nor your brothers ought to have had any input into whether your Mum should have an 'assisted suicide'. That is precisely the point being made here.

It should have been solely your Mum's decision and if she had decided that is what she wanted, I'm afraid you'd just have had to find some way to live with it.

[Bigbad]

I only said maybe 21.
Obviously the details would have to be thrashed out by people with far better minds than me!
I’m advocating that that the person is the only one who could make that decision, so you would have a chance to review it at any time, with no input from anyone else.
People could, of course, choose not to fill in any documents.

Agree with bhg481.
My dad was completely bonkers for the last few months of his life, and semi-bonkers for a few years before.
He stopped eating, he went from a big-bellied man to looking like an anorexic stick insect.
He also had ‘toilet’ troubles, his GP didn’t want to know, and his dignity went out the window ages ago.
For the last month he was an absolute horrendous mess, and so unbearably unhappy, and a nightmare to watch, especially knowing with absolute certainty, that had he had the choice I’m advocating, his choice would have saved so much suffering for him.

[bhg481]

My mother actually got violent as well, as did the husband of a cousin of mine.
Our daughter has been told to take us to Switzerland (or wherever) if she thinks we've reached the point in life where she thinks it's best for us. I feel that I have no right to wreck her life when I reach the point where I am no longer a human being.

[jackthehat]

I've told Mrs JtH to take me to Switzerland.....
She can bring me home as hand-luggage.

If this plan goes ahead we can visit the Channel Islands for the first time.

[Cloverjo]

Whether you agree with assisted dying or not, the fact that people can go to Guernsey instead of Switzerland doesn't make a lot of difference. They've still got to get on a plane for that distressing final journey.
It might help the people in Guernsey slightly, but not really a lot of help otherwise.

[gness]

It must be three or four years now since I heard my mother speak a sentence.....over and over just the words......help me go to God...I want to go to God.....
Twelve years since she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's......

She lies curled up wearing nappies.....spoon fed mushy food and the only noise she makes is a long scream when she is hoisted into a shower.....

If I'm ever diagnosed with her condition it'll be Switzerland or Guernsey long before it's too late to exercise that right over my own body and welfare....x

[Bigbad]

I agree, Cloverjo, which is why I said
“The cocktail of drugs could be administered either whilst you are at home, or in hospital, no need to travel to do it.”

[Cloverjo]

Jackthehat, you don't have to want to die to visit the Channel Islands :) Go now, while you're both healthy.

[youngmafbog]

no, perhaps not the distance so much but Guernsey is Crown Dependency so people may find it more comfortable.

For me it so happens my mate owns a place just down the road from dignitas so wife and I have already said to each other that if we get like her mum (Alzheimer's) or my dad (cancer) we will go visit them.

[dave50]

An old lady lives alone with her faithful old dog. Both have been very ill and in pain for a long time. The vet visits and says we must be kind and put the dog to sleep. The doctor arrives and insists the old lady must be kept alive at all costs.

[New Judge]

"Palliative care is now such that there is less and less argument for taking your own or anothers life."

You obviously haven't witnessed a friend or loved one suffer a long, lingering and extremely unpleasant death, H-H. I have and gness explains above what it is like.

Palliative care can only successfully deal with certain terminal conditions such as advanced untreatable cancer. It cannot deal with dementia and other degenerative diseases that go on and on, sometimes for years, leaving the victim (and their nearest and dearest) in increasing distress. There is a place for human euthanasia and the sooner it is accepted and a proper debate held to arrive at a suitable solution, the better. But that won't happen because as soon as the topic is raised everyone starts on about "State Sponsored Murder" or some other equally silly nonsense.

[ToraToraTora]

bigbad; "I only said maybe 21.
Obviously the details would have to be thrashed out by people with far better minds than me! " - they have been, that's where we are now, in the correct place.

[Jahulaye]

Where do we stop? First euthanasia for the ill and next we’ll have prisoners serving long sentences requesting it, people who want to commit suicide but in better painless circumstances and drunk, drugged or just really upset angry people on a spur of the moment thought.

If euthanasia clinics become the norm then you can guarantee that black market clinics will become the norm catering for those above I mentioned.

When someone is dying don’t doctors still learn from their condition and in many cases administer research anaesthetics and experimental drugs as a last resort to help them to maybe helping others?

[New Judge]

“There is a place for human euthanasia and the sooner it is accepted and a proper debate held to arrive at a suitable solution, the better. But that won't happen because as soon as the topic is raised everyone starts on about "State Sponsored Murder" or some other equally silly nonsense.”

“Where do we stop? First euthanasia for the ill and next we’ll have prisoners serving long sentences requesting it, people who want to commit suicide but in better painless circumstances and drunk, drugged or just really upset angry people on a spur of the moment thought.”

I rest my case.

[bhg481]

Jahulaye //
When someone is dying don’t doctors still learn from their condition and in many cases administer research anaesthetics and experimental drugs as a last resort to help them to maybe helping others? //

So you want people kept alive against their wishes so that we can experiment on them?

[gness]

Seems like it, Bhg........and why not.......then along with the early years of indignity that my mother knew about.....hated and so wanted to die....followed by the years we have left the home in tears....we could sit by and watch her being experimented on for twelve or more years......bliss.... :-(