Chemical Attack

[ludwig]

More chemical attacks that Russia knows nothing about and had nothing to do with. It must be another one of those things the government has dreamed up to distract us all from Brexit. What do you reckon?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43697670

[ichkeria]

The .. er .. Russian specialists had found no evidence of a chemical attack.
Beyond shameless.
The tears of those children are plainly tears of laughter at such a ridiculous accusation by the evil west.

[Hopkirk]

It beats me how some of these Russians keep straight faces when they face the cameras.

Perhaps the fear of the wrath of Putin helps them.

[jno]

you'd hardly expect them to own up. Britain took nearly 25 years to admit the truth about the mustard gas explosion in Italy in 1945; I don't know why we'd expect any more of Russia.

[ToraToraTora]

nice move jno, slipped a bit of anti British in there, very creative.

[ichkeria]

25 years jno??
I think you’ll find 25 years a mere cynical flicker of Putin’s eyebrow in the grand scheme of things.

[jourdain2]

Russia has a very well-practised Department of Denial and Responsibility.

[jim360]

It's sadly true that the UK (and US) have dirtied their hands before, but that's precisely the sort of thing that Russia and Putin can rely on to keep doing the same thing with impunity. If they can point to us and say that we are no better than they are, then it's just a cynical attempt to claim equal guilt and carry on as before.

In that sense -- yes, we should look to our own history as a matter of course, but certainly not as a distraction from the crimes of others. It's playing into Putin et al's hands to do so.

[ichkeria]

But in WWII if we’d actually ever used the stuff presumably we wouldn’t have tried to deny it. Would we?

[jno]

no idea, ichkeria. They were supposedly stockpiling it for retaliatory use only, but as they didn't tell anyone, nobody knew how to treat those injured. And even after the event, they didn't tell anyone till 1967. So their mustard gas killed people, and no, they didn't admit it, if that answers your question.

http://ww2today.com/2nd-december-1943-mustard-gas-disaster-in-bari-harbour

I only know about it myself because my mother was there but, fortuitously, out of town that day.

[naomi24]

jno, have you got your facts right? According to this it was in 1943 and the bombs were aboard a US ship.

//The Allies were concerned that the Germans might use chemical weapons in World War II and wanted to be in a position to retaliate if such weapons were used against them.

In August of 1943, Roosevelt approved the shipment of chemical munitions containing mustard agent to the Mediterranean theater. Two thousand mustard bombs were loaded onto the USS John Harvey, commanded by Captain Elwin F. Knowles. The ship was waiting to unload in Bari, Italy when German planes attacked on December 2, 1943.

The John Harvey exploded, killing all of its crew and spreading liquid mustard gas across the harbor in the air and the water. //

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2012/05/the-irony-of-the-ss-john-harvey-deadly-mustard-gas-and-lifesaving-chemotherapy.

[Togo]

//The air raid on Bari was an air attack by German bombers on Allied forces and shipping in Bari, Italy on 2 December 1943 during World War II. In the attack, 105 German Junkers Ju 88 bombers of Luftflotte 2 achieved surprise and bombed shipping and personnel operating in support of the Allied Italian Campaign, sinking 27 cargo and transport ships and a schooner in Bari harbour.
The attack lasted a little more than one hour and put the port out of action until February 1944. The release of mustard gas from one of the wrecked cargo ships added to the loss of life. The British and US governments covered up the presence of mustard gas and its effects on victims of the raid.//

Britain and all our allies held stocks of poison gas in locations around the World, to be used in retaliation if Germany or Japan were to use them. The German air raid caused explosions that released mustard gas around the harbour of Bari. It was not a case of "Britain using poison gas" against civilians. Hitler of course was using his poison gases to exterminate millions of innocent civilians, including children. Had we known of it sooner, I would like to think that we would have given the Germans a taste of their own medicine.

[Togo]

Snap Naomi. Some can leave no "turn" unstoned can they.

[naomi24]

:o)

[ichkeria]

I don't want to justify the use (even the potential use, in an emergency) of banned chemical weapons, especially as it seems a bit pointless, given we incinerated families in their beds in Dresden and wiped out whole Japanese cities with new and terrifying weapons.
But this was a struggle against a wicked foe, for the future of civilisation as we knew it. What is Assad's justification for using such weapons? To preserve his murderous regime a little longer.

[-Talbot-]

Not long after Italy surrendered and switched sides ... some Italians were not happy about that and carried resentment for years and years and ....

[Togo]

Would that be Mussolini's Fascists Talbot?

[jim360]

Ichi: // But [WWII] was a struggle against a wicked foe, for the future of civilisation as we knew it. //

Indeed; I don't think anyone should be happy about what was done in that war, but there have certainly been worse excuses to commit atrocities than to preserve civilisation as we knew it. I guess my position is something like "regretting while understanding", if that makes sense and isn't too anti-British. For example, Churchill certainly planned to use gas weapons, etc, etc, against any German landings on UK shores, but ... well, if it came to that, I rather think people would have been more upset had we *not* gone to any lengths possible to repel invaders.

[DTCwordfan]

there's a place down here, strictly no go, and used for making nice agents.....Portreath and, rather ironically and a bit of a malgorith, right above the plaque for Binyon's "When the sun goes down'

[DTCwordfan]

malgorithm.....sorry