More Discord In The Eu

[webbo3]

More discord from certain countries, they won’t be able to shove them on to the next country.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/951970/EU-migrant-crisis-italy-spain-greece-refugee-quota

[ToraToraTora]

"why did you vote to free ourselves from the EU, when our own parliament (note ‘parliamemt’ not government as it’s cross-party) are just as manipulative and in democratic? " - I don't think our own MPs are as bad as the EU commission and they are at least elected. So they may be sac de merde but they are at least our elected sac de merde. Let me turn it round, did you vote to remain because you preferred to be ruled by an unelected foreign entity rather than our own elected parliament warts and all?

[Zacs-Master]

OG, I take it you ARE happy with the current situation of MPs twisting and manipulating the Brexit vote to resemble something which is a compromised fudge?

[Jackdaw33]

ZM's slavish devotion to the masters in Brussels, like Pavlov's dogs, is almost touching.

[Zacs-Master]

Tora, I’ve told you repeatedly why I voted remain but just to humour you, it was because we are one one of the worlds richest countries and I saw no reason to change a system, albeit one which is far from perfect, to another one which is far from perfect, or a sac du merde as you prefer to call it. I foresaw the machinations and arguments and I was aware of the lying cheating bunch of MPs track record and expected what we are now witnessing.

[Old_Geezer]

It is a perfectly realistic argument, but one not applicable to the EU. Dissing it doesn't change that.

I think my opinions are fact. But some may not realise it. They are welcome to be enlightened by my posts.

[Zacs-Master]

Whereas, JD, your belief that our Government is a much better organisation is proved wrong on almost a daily basis.

[Zacs-Master]

‘I think my opinions are fact’
Two minutes ago you said they were opinions. You seem to be confused,OG.

[Old_Geezer]

I'd be unhappy if anyone succeeded in making the exit a false paper only one. I'm unconvinced they have much chance of thwarting the exit though as the reaction from all democratic loving voters would be severe. So I'm not overly concerned with folk building up claims that it's likely or inevitable.

[Zacs-Master]

No one is saying there won’t be an exit. It’s what it resembles and how the leave voters expectations of what it would be that are being eroded, that are in question. That, and the irony that that has on their belief in democracy.

[Jackdaw33]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. We voted to leave so let's leave. We don't need no stinkin' deal.Walk away now and let the devil take the hindmost.

[naomi24]

I pretty much agree with Jackdaw. I think we should fulfil our obligations and walk away, but I suspect, as I’ve always suspected, that the leave voter won’t get what he voted for.

[Old_Geezer]

It is my opinion that the sky appears blue. It is also fact that the sky appears blue. It is not I who is confused.

[jim360]

Parliament is the seat of democracy in this country so, by definition, everything it does is democratic.

Obviously that's pure pedantry, and I'm not meaning to say that Parliament should just straight-up ignore the will of the people as expressed in 2016. But surely it's worth accepting that leaving the EU shouldn't be an end in itself? If people want to fix the grievances that led them to voting to leave, then they shouldn't just stop caring once all that's sorted -- and it won't be sorted how they like, anyway.

[naomi24]

Jim, // If people want to fix the grievances that led them to voting to leave, then they shouldn't just stop caring once all that's sorted //

What do you mean? Caring about what?

[jim360]

I guess my point is that many leavers seem to be so fixated on leaving the EU that they are ignoring even more serious problems with our democracy. It's just a scapegoat, in that sense.

[Old_Geezer]

Getting out fixes a Major issue, so as an end in itself, it's fine. That's not to say things aren't interconnected, nor that there is an end to governance. Always other things on the To Do list.

[naomi24]

Jim, if there are flaws in our democracy, getting out of the EU is surely lancing the biggest carbuncle - unelected rulers.

[Zacs-Master]

JD, Naomi, you can’t have read my link. There would appear to be a cross-party wish to write certain aspects of Brexit into law which would prevent us from walking away.

[naomi24]

Zacs, I know. As I said, I’ve always suspected, that the leave voter won’t get what he voted for.

[jim360]

I don't agree that the EU are our "rulers", so no, I'm not sure it's the biggest boil to lance. Not even close.