The sterile argument, should it be elected or appointed, is pointless. We need a second chamber, to revise and advise, and the answer is the French/German model. As almost all legislation affects local government, to a lesser or greater degree, let the second chamber be composed of representatives of local authorities (borough, district, county, regional, mayoral etc) and that solves the problem. No need for elections, small on-cost, and the second chamber represents the countries (Wales, Scot, NI) and counties and has the expertise so beloved of the supporters of the present chamber.