No Handshake? No Swiss Citizenship!

[ChillDoubt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45232147

How drastically draconian of the liberal-minded Swiss!

Good to see they’re not bending to the right-on fascists, eh?

[ToraToraTora]

they're bang on, this was not just about the hand shake it was also about their refusal to integrate. Makes you wonder why people go to a foriegn country to live and then refuse to integrate into that country, should have stayed where they were in the first place.

[rowanwitch]

Perfectly acceptable reasoning, if they are not prepared to accept the country's gender equality rules from the outset they have very little chance of integrating successfully. It's a simple thing but normal physical contact is part of everyday life.

[sandyRoe]

Have the Swiss authorities thought this through? An ultra orthodox male Jew might refuse to touch a strange woman for fear she might be "unclean".
You set a hurdle for followers of Islam and impede followers of other religions, too.

[rowanwitch]

Imagine how they'd react in a country where everyone kisses each other....

[ChillDoubt]

An ultra orthodox male Jew might refuse to touch a strange woman for fear she might be "unclean".
—————-
If a Jew was that ultra I’d hazard a guess he’d settle in Israel, not a tolerant, liberal-minded country like Switzerland.
Maybe this couple should have looked to settle somewhere more in tune to their faith and ideals, like Saudi Arabia or similar?

[ummmm]

I understand Sandy's point of view.

[Mamyalynne]

Reading the scant details in the article, this was more than the lack of handshakes, they also struggled to answer questions too - presuming there was a handbook of guidelines to read prior to the Citizenship interview then the couple have clearly made the wrong choices.

In the case of the lady in Sweden she did not shake anyone's hand not only those of the opposite sex and offered a hand on heart gesture.

It seems easy to run the two together but I'm not sure they are the same given the minimal details we have.

[sandyRoe]

Can Switzerland really be so liberal if they erect a shibboleth that seems designed to keep out people who would otherwise acceptable?

[Guilbert53]

>>>I understand Sandy's point of view.

Why on earth is it OK for a jew not to shake a woman's hand if she may be "unclean" (what an awful expression)

This is just as much "medieval" outdated thinking as the Muslim family not shaking hands or integrating.

We have fought hard for hundreds of years in this country to modernize our society, treat men and women the same, give everyone the vote, hopefully pay them an equal wage.

Then we have these people coming here refusing to touch a woman, or to make their "woman" wear all over clothing is case some man lusts after her.

Pity we are not as strong as Switzerland about who we allow to settle here, now we seem to have anybody and everybody even if they are not prepared to adapt to the country they live in.

These people are happy to accept honour killings, female genital mutilation, not shaking hands with certain people etc.

How sad it all is, dragging our country back to the middle ages.

[pastafreak]

I agree with Sandy.

[pastafreak]

Is it practical for those with different cultural or religious beliefs to change immediately? The best change is gradual...then it's more likely to be permanent, and for the right reasons.
How many Brits immediately adopt new habits on emigrating? They expect to find a full English wherever they are. I know...a light-hearted example, but think about it.

[ummmm]

Guilbert you know the answer to that!

[dannyk13]

//How many Brits immediately adopt new habits on emigrating? //
Whilst visiting relative in Italy I was asked "Why do the English expect everyone in a foreign country to speak their language" ?.

[ummmm]

danny...because mainly they do.

[ChillDoubt]

Is it practical for those with different cultural or religious beliefs to change immediately?
—————
These people are Muslims, their ideals and mindset haven’t changed in centuries.
If this couple really wanted to integrate, couldn’t they have started what you suggest from the outset i.e. the interview?

[Rockrose]

Chilldoubt there is a very large community of ultra Orthodox Jews in Stamford Hill , they basically own there.

[Spicerack]

Yeah, they've been running people over and blowing things up for years.

[New Judge]

Have the Swiss authorities thought this through? An ultra orthodox male Jew might refuse to touch a strange woman for fear she might be "unclean".

“I understand Sandy's point of view….”

Astonishly (!) I don’t. Refusing to shake hands in Western societies is a snub, an insult and, as I said in the thread about the lady in Sweden, I find it offensive (it’s actually a way we in the West exhibit our distrust or dislike of someone who offers their hand). I make no exceptions when I am in Europe for the strange religious penchants of others who are living here.

“Chilldoubt there is a very large community of ultra Orthodox Jews in Stamford Hill , they basically own there.”

I don't know how that's relevant to this thread but I know. I lived there for twenty four years. The mindset of many (though not all) of them hasn’t changed in centuries either and my views about them are just the same.

Most of these religious proclivities have some basis going back centuries. In the case of shaking hands it obviously stems from “uncleanliness” or apostasy of some kind. There’s plenty of places where such behaviour is acceptable or even compulsory but it’s medieval, it’s insulting and it has no place in my world.