Plans for council tax reformation

[ICEMANSAV]

Sorry if this has been already covered in news, just wondered what your thoughts are on this proposal covered in most newspapers. If the articles are to be believed then I for one will be paying a hefty increase when the evaluation is re-done, like to hear other opinions on the matter. Cheers.

[Chessman]

Gordon Browns done well, hasn't he, after all, he inherited a strong economy, sold half our gold reserves to get extra cash, plundered our pensions, raised taxes, created new taxes, so after his boss has spent all that, about all thats left is the council tax, won't be too long before we all walk round with an air meter, and we'll pay tax on how many breaths we take.

Sorry for the tone of that, but its how I feel.

[ICEMANSAV]

no apologies needed, I appreciate the viewpoint

[Dom Tuk]

Chessman you forgot the 30 billion he earned on the mobile phone licenses.

Yes i am worried about the council tax reformation. It is going to increase my monthly payment by about a �100 pounds within the next 2 years and its worse than income tax. I like the way the council says it pays for poilcemen and the central govt says exactly the same with income tax.

Chessman i am going to take a very deep breath, atleast they cannot tax that.

[january_bug]

Is this going to be better than, the same as, or worse than Maggie Thatcher's Poll Tax?

[shaneystar]

We are retired on a fixed income..if goes up much more we may as well sell up and buy a tent. I think it all needs radical reform and should be based on peoples ability to pay.

[MsBadely]

Make sure your tent doesn't have a nice view!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4411486.stm

[Ding-Dong]

I find an arbitrary assumption of wealth based upon the value of one's house somewhat abhorrent: my grandmother inherited her house from her mother more than 50 years ago - the house is now worth about 200k ish - however, her only income is the state pension, and she really struggles (so much so that me and my sister now pay her council tax - but that's by the by, the council don't know that) - the point I am rather clumsilly trying to make is that the value of your house bears absolutely no resemblance to your ability to pay.

[ICEMANSAV]

I agree Ding Dong, here is a brief outline, however this seems to find favour, is it really middle class U.K complaining at paying a fair increase? The view seems to state that it is pot and kettle complaing about chavs etc. yet still want our proverbial cake.

[january_bug]

Yes people living in huge houses that are worth a lot DO have the ability to pay. Just because the assets are tied up in the house does not mean they are any less rich. Basing council (or any form of) tax payments on one's ready cash assets would only encourage more and more people to set up off-shore accounts or to invest in expensive houses with swimming pools, and a Jag or 3 just so they can turn round and say "but I've only got �5000 in my current account, how can you expect me to pay so much tax!?

If things are going to be means tested, ALL assets should be taken into account. Houses, cars, and actualy cash (in accounts or under the matress) or not. Otherwise it's just inviting cloak and dagger behaviour.

[ICEMANSAV]

I disagree JB, I see the council tax implications as a punishment for having the hindsight to invest earned money into the main asset in ones possession? Surely taxing all assets is draconian, why not increase the NI ceiling higher to take into account the incresed wages associated with large houses, therefore the rich or well off are directly contributing a fair sure based on actual proven income?

[ICEMANSAV]

sorry forgot to add rather than automatically thrusting someones address into a " pay more " or " pay less " bracket?

[january_bug]

I'm not saying to tax all assets, perhaps I explained myself poorly. I'm just saying that if you're going to call for means testing, then the means to pay should be judged on everything you have.

After all, in my opinion, the Grand-mother mentioned above, COULD sell up and move to smaller house (harsh I know, as the house has been in the family for generations, but that is a separate argument) and thus free up more money AND have a smaller council tax bill. It's not as if she's being FORCED to live in such a grand house. I'm not necessarily saying she SHOULD move, just that she COULD do so.

My feeling is that the people who can afford to live in the nice houses, are more likely to be those who can afford the higher rates. People might be shocked to note that this is actually RIGHT of centre, and I'm saying it.

Whilst perhaps people should not be punished for investing in a house, you could look at it the other way round and say that if homeowners are not going to pay more, then renters (who are already in an unenviable position) MUST pay more. That means they get doubly punished. SOMEONE has to pay, if we are to keep demanding such high levels of public service.

[january_bug]

ICEMANSAV - didn't see your second post as had already started responding to the first one. Please bear that in mind when reading my answer! :-)

[ICEMANSAV]

Surely if we go down the "you can sell up and get a smaller house route" then eventually all affordably priced homes will be taken by people with more assetts making the position for the rentee harder to foot on the ladder? Your second post noted by the way. I understand it is a speculation from yourself and not a steadfast means to an end.

[january_bug]

To be honest Icemansav, I was only floating some ideas. I'm very wary of posting what I feel to be my conclusive "policy suggestions" (well, you know what I mean) without giving the matter full thought. That's something I ought not to be doing now as the boss is around! lol

I'll read into it all properly and try to reach some conclusions, but I can't promise anything, and I'm sure you won't mind that! :-)

[ICEMANSAV]

Not at all JB, just glad we can have a reasoned disagreement! Post what you find, it shall be of interest

[january_bug]

Indeed - it'll be refreshing for others too I'm sure, to read a thread where two users disagreed, but didn't resort to name-calling! :-)

[kempie]

I am hoping that one of the Great and the Good currently ensconced in the Palace of Westminster will answer a few of these questions:

Were no "lessons learned" (a New Labour clich�) from the rebanding debacle in Wales?

What magical transformation occurred during the last decade to the 33% of welsh housing which moved up a band? Or perhaps, more telling, what happened to cause 8% to move down?

What has changed, post-election, to justify the reinstatement of this policy toward English houses; a policy which was dumped before the General Election?

[bazwillrun]

something else to bear in mind.

with these new valuations coming, gordon brown will rake in billions from all the homes that will as a result of the higher valuation incur inheritance tax, a tax so high as to make sure that the vast majority of people will not be able to keep the properties willed to them by their parents

[smudge]

'Scuse haste - but I totally agree with your sentiments ICEMANSAV!